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Meaning.

Meaning.
December 04, 2013, 10:14:04 PM
People often say they have no meaning in their lives.
That's a simple enough statement. It sounds harmless enough. "So what?" you may think.
So what, indeed.
What does it mean, to have no meaning in one's life?
Probably more than one might think.

I've long been puzzled by the attitude of a whole mass of the people I run into on the internet.
They don't understand what I write. They don't understand what I mean. They accuse me of speaking in meaningless riddles. And then condemn it as rubbish, and worse.

They don't understand. It conveys no meaning. This, apparently, is never considered to be a lack on the part of the one who doesn't understand. Only a lack on the part of the writer. It is up to the writer, so say these non-understanders, to explain myself sufficiently well so that they may understand. And yet I find, again and again, that no matter what I say, how well I explain it, or how many examples I give, such people remain none the wiser.

There is no meaning in their lives. Life has no meaning for them. Nothing means anything. They say these things, themselves. And yet seem unable to derive meaning from their own claims of meaninglessness.

If your life has no meaning, and if it does not provide you with meaning, then clearly it is necessary to take it upon yourself to set about discovering some, for yourself, since nobody else is either going to, or has so far been able to, provide it on your behalf.

Discovery of meaning is up to you, and to nobody else. It can not be provided, gratis, to you. If it could, it would have no meaning, and no value, as is the case with everything else that humans once had to expend a great deal of effort in order to achieve, but is now handed out, willy-nilly, for the expenditure of no effort whatsoever.
Money, food, shelter, sex, position, standing, status, worth...

Meaning is more than some esoteric, optional accessory, that you can either be bothered with, or not.
Meaning is what it says it is, so obviously, and clearly, that fewer and fewer people seem able to notice it.
Without meaning, things don't mean anything. Nothing does.

Nothing.

Squawk!

Re: Meaning.
December 04, 2013, 11:11:26 PM
The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreaming.

Re: Meaning.
December 04, 2013, 11:16:40 PM
And the meaning of that is?
Squawk!

Re: Meaning.
December 05, 2013, 01:38:36 PM
It is up to the writer, so say these non-understanders, to explain myself sufficiently well so that they may understand.

A convenient perversion of the esoteric theorem. Esotericism says that knowledge reveals itself to those who are ready for it. The exoteric doctrine these people espouse says that the writer somehow conjures up magic to make them understand.

What they'll never acknowledge is that such an attitude results is being spoon-fed utterly deconstructed and useless "information," such as one finds on a regular blog, so that their infantilized brains can grasp it.

And also:

People love cliche/trope/meme. It helps them participate, which is what they think reading is. "See, I read it, now I'm smart, k."

Here's a load of cliches for you:

http://www.granta.com/New-Writing/The-Second-Night-is-Ending

It's highly praised writing. LOL

Re: Meaning.
December 05, 2013, 07:07:00 PM
Good writing takes what-is and clearly describes it.
Bad writing is anything else.
Squawk!

Re: Meaning.
December 05, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
And the meaning of that is?

It means that you've beaten the thing down with abstraction and probably lost sight of the thing, as it is, entirely.

Re: Meaning.
December 05, 2013, 09:35:43 PM
Nope. It still means nothing to me.
Squawk!

Re: Meaning.
December 06, 2013, 03:36:43 AM
I get what Vigilance is saying.

Consider that he started with an assumption: Meaning is not real, meaning is the product of human minds. It is the most basic platform from which we develop ideas like nihilism.

Now what he means is clear; The more meaning you find in something, the more withdrawn you are from the actual meaningless reality of the something.

My car means a lot to me, because I rely on it to achieve my goals (which are admittedly quite meaningless). To someone else who does not rely on my car's utility, my car is less meaningful to them. It does not represent anything outside of its own existence as a car.

So meaning is basically a measurement of the significance of utility reflected in an object (or idea, song, what have you).

Now of course I see both sides and can not make a decision on the meaningfulness of meaning. So it is a human invention, a psychological crutch or restraint. So is my car, yet I accomplish tasks with it, and so cause changes in the actual reality surrounding myself.

Real, not real. Sometimes I only confuse myself more by drawing a distinction.

Re: Meaning.
December 06, 2013, 05:58:39 AM
There is meaning in everything, but what that meaning means to you, is entirely up to you.
It can be meaning that increases the perceived value of your life, exponentially, or it can be one that means there is no value at all.
Whenever I speak, or write, I describe the former perspective, because that is the meaning I perceive in life.
Those who see no value, and meaninglessness in their lives, take issue with my view, and with my character.
To them I appear deluded and stupid.
Paradoxically, I see those people in the same way they see me.

Beyond what anybody thinks about life, it remains what it is, regardless.
A opportunity to live, for a short while, and glory in that, or resent every moment.

Meaning is what you make of it. I know which side of the fence I sit.
Squawk!

Re: Meaning.
December 06, 2013, 01:21:42 PM
Good writing takes what-is and clearly describes it.
Bad writing is anything else.

The modern vision of this:

Good writing is that which is adorned to make the reader feel comfortable.

Bad writing is anything they didn't understand.

Re: Meaning.
December 06, 2013, 07:04:39 PM
Well, at least there is one other person on earth, apart from my wife, who gets it :)
Squawk!

Re: Meaning.
December 06, 2013, 07:21:51 PM
I get what Vigilance is saying.

Consider that he started with an assumption: Meaning is not real, meaning is the product of human minds. It is the most basic platform from which we develop ideas like nihilism.

Now what he means is clear; The more meaning you find in something, the more withdrawn you are from the actual meaningless reality of the something.

My car means a lot to me, because I rely on it to achieve my goals (which are admittedly quite meaningless). To someone else who does not rely on my car's utility, my car is less meaningful to them. It does not represent anything outside of its own existence as a car.

So meaning is basically a measurement of the significance of utility reflected in an object (or idea, song, what have you).

Now of course I see both sides and can not make a decision on the meaningfulness of meaning. So it is a human invention, a psychological crutch or restraint. So is my car, yet I accomplish tasks with it, and so cause changes in the actual reality surrounding myself.

Real, not real. Sometimes I only confuse myself more by drawing a distinction.

No that's not at all what I meant. Meaning and dreaming are real. People looking to quantify meaning with some abstract generalization drawn from outside the self, are in error.

The only way you can get an objective correspondence to show others is by way of art, really. Art gives concrete and objective form to meaning. Writing can get the job done, but I don't think it is the best vehicle. 

Re: Meaning.
December 06, 2013, 07:50:55 PM
I suspected as much.
How often do we assume we know what somebody means, or that they understand what we mean, when it absolutely isn't happening?

I blame most of this state of affairs on the '60s drug culture, and its aftermath. It was the first time I ever heard people saying "d'ya know what I mean?" Drugged hippies imagined they knew what everyone meant even when those people hadn't actually said anything. And upon being asked if you knew what they meant, who was going to admit they were the only ones who didn't?

No. The fact is: almost nobody understands almost anything almost anybody says, writes, or means. They mostly only think they do. While thinking everybody else understands them.
Great recipe, eh? You end up with what you end up with: What we have.


Squawk!

Re: Meaning.
December 07, 2013, 03:44:02 AM
Alright, I guess I should lay off the pot when I'm browsing the DMU forum.

Re: Meaning.
December 08, 2013, 02:46:04 AM
How does meaning manifest in your life? Is it created, is it emergent?
How does the perennial intersect with the mundane? Is there meaning in doing household chores or are they done out of necessity? Are these mutually exclusive? Do you shit with a thousand ecstasies? Does mowing the lawn set you trembling with ennui?
What does meaning (in the context of this thread) mean anyway? Is it borne of intellect, or something else? 

Quote
Do you wrestle with dreams?
Do you contend with shadows?
Do you move in a kind of sleep?
Time has slipped away.
Your life is stolen.
You tarried with trifles,
Victim of your folly.

- Dirge for Jamis on the funeral plain
 
Rise Arjuna