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Meaning.

Re: Meaning.
December 08, 2013, 03:10:59 AM
Meaning, for me, is what everything offers up, freely, before the observer observes his own meaning over the top of it.
It is the opposite of intellectual. It is what becomes clearly visible when intellect is suspended.
A crow taught me to see like this:
It is not human, and probably does not see itself as a crow. It just is whatever it is, and never questions this.

Humans tend to view everything from a human perspective: what use is it/what use is it to me.
They wring personal gain from everything, without regard for the consequences of doing that.
Whereas a crow will observe, and play with, everything. If it can be eaten, they will eat it, as per design. If it can be fucked, they will fuck it, as per design. But never will they wreck anything for the sake of wrecking it, or to extract knowledge from that wrecking.

Humans hoard stuff, and that hoarding advises everything they do, and the way in which they do it.
Crows do not hoard. They are alive NOW. Everything they do is NOW.
Humans could improve upon this, having the ability to see where things go and what happens next.
But usually they don't improve upon anything, and simply leave a trail of destruction in their wake.

I have found myself in a state of no-time, like the reality a crow inhabits. All is NOW. And being so grants access to eternity.

Too simple for humans to grasp, mostly. Simple enough for a crow to grasp. Leap and live.
Make nothing of anything, and everything comes alive as what it is.
What is it?
If you can decide it isn't anything, and see it in those terms, you will see what it is.

This is why I shun the accumulation of knowledge. I don't need it. Apples are best left alone.
That way, I get to live in an otherwise human-less Garden Of Eden.
It's nice here. I recommend it.




Re: Meaning.
December 08, 2013, 03:17:40 AM
who thinks his life has no meaning, it's just an idle-lazy.

someone who has plenty of time to just think about life and its idle (besides selfish)

I'm lazy, selfish and quarrelsome, my life has that sense.

Re: Meaning.
December 08, 2013, 03:26:44 AM
I suspected as much.
How often do we assume we know what somebody means, or that they understand what we mean, when it absolutely isn't happening?

I blame most of this state of affairs on the '60s drug culture, and its aftermath. It was the first time I ever heard people saying "d'ya know what I mean?" Drugged :( hippies imagined they knew what everyone meant even when those people hadn't actually said anything. And upon being asked if you knew what they meant, who was going to admit they were the only ones who didn't?

No. The fact is: almost nobody understands almost anything almost anybody says, writes, or means. They mostly only think they do. While thinking everybody else understands them.
Great recipe, eh? You end up with what you end up with: What we have.

They did some good. The call to scale down was an adaptive response to future crisis. In fact, the culture itself inspired a lot of innovation in energy conservation practices in things like home construction and cut down the nations use of fossil fuels, for a brief period, in a substantial way. Unfortunately it all went out the window in the following decades. The full movement never truly caught on with the political class like it needed to due to the inherent risk in adopting the required policy. The extreme relativism and drug abuse was bad, as was the rebellion against traditional structures, but I don't feel like completely writing those poor saps off.

Re: Meaning.
December 08, 2013, 05:18:33 AM
I feel like writing them off. A poor sap is a poor sap. Except a poor sap is content to merely be a poor sap, as opposed to actively demanding that all of society change so that everybody else becomes one too.

Then again, I happen to live in one of the last hippy strongholds, where the ageing, true diehards hang out, take themselves insanely seriously, and regard their stoned-out, brain-wrecked superegos as the gold-standard against which all others should be measured. You never met such self-important idiots.
Their only use is to demonstrate the end-result of what happens to hippies in the long run.

Funnily enough, I used to be one. Sort-of. But even I, stupid as I was at that age, was able to see that being a hippy was something you did when you were young, and that at some point it would become necessary to grow up.

Hippies never really stood for anything, except themselves, and their own juvenile desires. They became the leftists we know and despise today. Dangerous, ignorant dimwits. Their only substance is in whatever they have popped, inhaled, or otherwise consumed, in their typically self-abusive way.


Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 02:06:21 AM
A false, but relevant meaning for me is find knowlodge.

Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 02:26:22 AM
Why do you consider that a 'false' meaning?

Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 03:34:09 AM
Because if you think about it, everything is false. If we will die, why do you should do anything? You just don't need to do anything. Or I will carry it with me after my death?

Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 03:45:32 AM
If you're going to die, you may as well do something while you have the opportunity.

Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 03:48:12 AM
Well yes :)
If you were handed $1,000,000 would you set fire to it and burn it up because spending it would be pointless?
You have this incredibly unlikely gift, given to you: physical life on a beautiful planet, for years and years...
Why wouldn't you do the best you could with it, and get the most from it?
In the spirit of exploration, if for nothing else.
You don't have to say, but to me, that is incomprehensible.

Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 02:20:50 PM
No, I will not burn 1.000.000$, we humans are instinctually very addicted to money. Life is like a bad game, that you can play, or not, there's bad times and some good times. You're playing because you want try, if you create your own objective (knowledge in my case), it still being pointless, you just can't find real meaning in a place without meaning. You just continue because you want, you're not forced to do it.

Even you creating your own meaning, it will not be real, will be just a hobby. Meaning for christians is like go to heaven and live for ever in the paradise, but you have to be good (follow the 10 statements). Life can has a meaning, but it will never be a real meaning, just a hobby. The only meaning that I believe be real is the natural cycle (born, grow, reproduce and die, sharing your nutrients with the new life), isn't for us, is for the life coexistence. But WE, HUMANS, haven't a real meaning.

To a meaning be real it have to be bigger than our existence.

Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 02:25:41 PM
I'd probably burn the money.

Re: Meaning.
December 12, 2013, 04:52:13 PM
No, I will not burn 1.000.000$, we humans are instinctually very addicted to money. Life is like a bad game, that you can play, or not, there's bad times and some good times. You're playing because you want try, if you create your own objective (knowledge in my case), it still being pointless, you just can't find real meaning in a place without meaning. You just continue because you want, you're not forced to do it.

Even you creating your own meaning, it will not be real, will be just a hobby. Meaning for christians is like go to heaven and live for ever in the paradise, but you have to be good (follow the 10 statements). Life can has a meaning, but it will never be a real meaning, just a hobby. The only meaning that I believe be real is the natural cycle (born, grow, reproduce and die, sharing your nutrients with the new life), isn't for us, is for the life coexistence. But WE, HUMANS, haven't a real meaning.

To a meaning be real it have to be bigger than our existence.

A brain machination is a brain machination. The declaration that meaning is just a brain machination, is still a brain machination. I prefer to just toss this self defeating proposition in the trash.

Re: Meaning.
December 13, 2013, 02:19:20 PM
Quote
Idealism is the philosophical belief that the universe operates either in a way that is similar to our thoughts, or is composed of thoughts itself.

A transcendental or pragmatic idealism suggests that the mechanism of the universe is similar to thoughts, and we know it through the metaphor of thoughts (as we cannot perceive it directly, and know it only through our perceptual filter) but that, in our lives as functional beings, what becomes important is not the tangible, physical world but its significance, or meaning, in the context of thoughts.


- http://www.anus.com/etc/prozakhistan/idealism.htm

Stuff happens. Maybe it has intrinsic meaning, maybe it doesn't.
More useful is the effect it has on the observer.
How do you feel about things? How do you feel about the things you make happen?

When I was much younger I ingested a quantity of psilocybin mushrooms, I was standing in a clearing staring up at the moon and stars incanting some Nietzsche about the eternal recurrence- willing some god or demon to appear.

Of course nothing happened, no deity descended to inflict purpose on me, no paradigm shift and forced ascension occurred, and that saddened me to the exclusion of all else.

I was in a beautiful place, surrounded by good friends and elevated with fungus and polyglot hibiscus- but completely incapable of enjoying this bounty because of some brain machination.

When I try to analyze a thing, the most piercing thoughts rise up from the deeps. I'm not the conscious creator, I just experience them. All of my best conversations happen this way. All of my epiphanies, all my actions.

The conscious thinking that occupies most of my waking hours- it doesn't seem that useful to me, at all. It provides distractions and emotional masturbation and little else.
What then of the nature of thoughts? Maybe finding meaning is finding a better way to think. Rather to not think so that meaning can appear when the debris of the self is pushed aside. 
The pursuit of meaning then becomes the pursuit of this state- what use is a meaningless life.
And what work can a man do that he becomes so overwhelmed with existing so as to not need external meaning. To do as he will, and experience what he will and need no validation outside of that?

I can only speculate.

Re: Meaning.
December 13, 2013, 06:27:13 PM
Nice one, Walt. That was reading worth reading.

Re: Meaning.
December 13, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
Isn't meaning the truth? When you find something that is unrelated to you, something that exists even if you don't. It's not inside of you but it exists outside, under the pale grey sky but you can still relate to it. It makes you stronger or even more determined. Isn't that the truth?