Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Which is the Soul, Exists??

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 21, 2013, 06:32:31 AM
No. But speaking of external validation, I was not always so self-assured.
I was as much in need of it as anyone, until I chanced to read Tao te Ching.
That validated my entire life, up to that point, and every view/belief I had ever held.
What random validation do you think would count, after that?


Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 04:00:53 AM
Quote
"You can't prove God doesn't exist, therefore you believe on faith he doesn't!"

- Creationist 2013

Replace "God" with "non-material" and it's the same quality argument. Until someone can provide evidence that the "non-material" exists, it shouldn't be taken seriously.

Go ahead and parse words if you get off on being a nihilistic twat.

I'll restate:
again there is no evidence to date of the causal link going either direction.

This post is however ironic of you. Neither position has been sufficiently proven so the reality is, both are on equal ground. I imagine that you will have plenty to say to the contrary, but there's the hope that your own brand of religiousity will be tolerant.


It's worth stating that any axiomic system of knowledge is held together by faith in first principles held independent of that body of knowledge. Faith is a pillar of human thought upon which all achievements in that realm rest.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 04:57:43 AM
Quote
there is no evidence to date of the causal link going either direction.


If you're referring to consciousness, this is ludicrous. Go find consciousnesses which isn't derived from material and report back.

If you're referring to the cosmos, I'll say this: material can be observed and be proven to exist insofar as humans are capable of establishing such. The non-material has nothing beyond tentative mathematical hypotheses which are unsure of what they are describing - it may turn out that these processes are in fact material. If it turns out there is a non-material aspect to the universe, science shall incorporate it.

Material: provable
Non-Material: As of now, not provable.

These are not on equal footing. If you think they are, you are choosing to believe what you want to be true in face of evidence.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 10:03:37 AM
Quote
there is no evidence to date of the causal link going either direction.


If you're referring to consciousness, this is ludicrous. Go find consciousnesses which isn't derived from material and report back.


If you're stuck in the material, how would you know?

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 07:04:54 PM
Good point, indeed.
I've found there is no way to connect with anyone who sees only the material.
It's not possible, apparently, to speak of, or even consider things, of which one is not aware.
I notice a parallel with attempting to explain to a leftist that all the things they accuse me of, for my lack, are not a lack, at all. But since they themselves lack what they claim I lack, they are unable to see the lack of lack, since what they portray as being the lack of lack, is a portrayal of something they have no idea how to portray, since they lack any knowledge of what it is.

Haha.
I'm not half bad at describing nonsensical absurdity :)

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 07:17:38 PM
I'm reading a book right now, reminds me of what goes on in this thread a lot. The book describes a "revolutionary" theory of existence called "THE HOLOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE"! The idea behind this theory is that all material is merely phenomenal and the reality of the universe is hidden behind this veil of matter. The reality is non-material, hyper-energetic pure substance that is refracted (much like white light becomes colors when we split its wavelengths) and appears in various forms of matter and energy.

Though the book claims to come from a scientific perspective, the author comments within the first few pages that the ancient mystics were right, and Maya (our world as we experience it) is indeed an illusion.

Interesting stuff to read about. I'm excited to get to the part where the author claims to explain psychic phenomenon like psychokinesis and telepathy. In a way, it  makes me feel good to read something like this, by someone who, coming from a scientific background, finds joy in the mysteries that most people deny are even there.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 08:17:21 PM
Quote
If you're stuck in the material, how would you know?

You either believe:

1. The "non"-material is unobservable by humans, thus you believe it on faith.

2. It is observable by humans and thus can be scientifically analyzed.

Until you provide anything to demonstrate point two, my challenge stands.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 08:22:08 PM
I often forget, I take Reality for granted, as if everybody can, or could, recognize it.
Of course, this is not the case. The illusion is as compelling as it is comprehensive.
I'm not even sure if it is ever meant to be discernible to physical beings.

But certainly, there is this Reality that has almost nothing to do with the physical realm, but which forms the mechanics for the existence of everything. I see this as God. It is no theory. But in a way: so what?
If God were necessary to the day to day running of the universe, It probably would be more apparent to Its creations than it is.

Naturally, having discovered the existence of this thing, I am eager to share it.
The discovery of It places me in the minority to end all minorities. To all others it is no more than a theory.
Consequently, my attempts at sharing, deliver entirely predictable results.
Which reminds me: what happened to 03-04? 

Oh, and by the way, Wild:
You assume that anything which can be experienced, can be scientifically analysed.
This is not even close to the truth. It is only something you assume, and in that, it is very much like any half-assed religious belief. Still, as I have said: nobody but you, is ever going to be able to refute your view, to you.
It probably doesn't matter, anyway.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 08:41:02 PM
Rather than start another 4 pages of circular arguments, I'm bowing out.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 22, 2013, 08:48:14 PM
That's the spirit.
You know: there is no shame in not knowing something, or not knowing about something.
It is a very modern phenomenon to trash anything that doesn't immediately fit nicely into what is already known.
In the past, people generally had a little more humility. Things often take some time to become clear.
Even if they don't ever become clear, that still doesn't necessarily mean they are false.


Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 23, 2013, 12:39:54 AM
You can't not believe in non-material things can you? That's just our ability to view things in abstract terms.

When we use terms like God, all we can be referring to is something psychological, just as when we refer to a Dog we are simply referring to something that has entered into our consciousness as a Dog-like being. Multiple people can be in the same room and see something and agree that it is a dog, and multiple people can be in the same room and discuss something they call a god.

I have never seen a god or a photon, but I have seen a dog, and that I guess is the difference.

Quote from: crow
the minority to end all minorities.

Haha! Makes me think of revelations...

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 23, 2013, 12:47:19 AM
Revelation is what this is all about.
That you may have never had one, means nothing, does it?
The only thing it could possibly mean, is that you have never had one.

Fact is, there are such things as revelations to be had.
A very few have them.
Usually, those who have not, call such experiences delusion.
And that pretty much sums up (Western) humanity.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 23, 2013, 01:40:13 AM
I don't know if I've had revelations,
but according to others I'm delusional,
so maybe I have.

I AM THE EMPERORRRRR

(mind you, the stuff you write had a fairly significant influence on my last "delusional" state, make of that what you will - in my first delusion, I was persecuted by a sparrow, in my second I was given new life by a crow. My friend said there was a sparrow following around a crow near her home around this time)

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 23, 2013, 01:58:22 AM
My friend said there was a sparrow following around a crow near her home around this time

Some people call this "synchronicity". It should never be ignored or taken for granted.

Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
December 23, 2013, 12:15:28 PM
My friend said there was a sparrow following around a crow near her home around this time

Some people call this "synchronicity". It should never be ignored or taken for granted.

I'm glad I just remembered it, actually.

Next time should be an owl.