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Drugs

Re: Drugs
February 07, 2014, 07:13:27 PM
You must be referring to The Beatles  :)

Re: Drugs
February 07, 2014, 10:17:32 PM
Though I like the mystique of Dale's Pendellgram, this chart explains things more accurately.

Whoa! Awesome find.

Re: Drugs
February 11, 2014, 04:39:19 AM
Where does stuff like robo and PCP fit in? Somewhere between phantastica and inebriata?

I suspect Inebriata/Euphorica. Both PCP and DXM are classified as dissociative hallucinogens (NMDA receptor antagonists), as is Nitrous Oxide.

What exactly does Nitrous Oxide do? I've never given it a try and my drug taking days are pretty much over.

Hey, I was just thinking, when not used for jet-engine or mind propulsion, it could actually have some quirky use for vocal effects. Being heavier than oxygen, it would lower the pitch of soundwaves if you were to talk, scream or laugh while breathing out (the effect opposite of helium).

Re: Drugs
February 11, 2014, 11:51:31 PM
Here's a question: Why do you think drugs are such a hot topic on this forum, which I dare to say probably has one of the highest average IQs of all public internet forums?

Could it be that the bright youth among us are so disillusioned with the direction of their society and therefore their own lives that even they are constantly contemplating any possible way to alleviate the mind numbing boredom and depression of our modern civilization?

Re: Drugs
February 12, 2014, 01:03:26 AM
Here's a question: Why do you think drugs are such a hot topic on this forum, which I dare to say probably has one of the highest average IQs of all public internet forums?

Could it be that the bright youth among us are so disillusioned with the direction of their society and therefore their own lives that even they are constantly contemplating any possible way to alleviate the mind numbing boredom and depression of our modern civilization?

Generally speaking, I think you are right. And so is death metal black metal. But once again there is no rule without exception. As with anything there is multiform potential. If a person could take or leave any given experience without hindering resources or in becoming a fruitcake by the end of it then there's no real problem. But of course, how often and for how many people is this the case?

The real problem I see is in people clinging to ideas and opinions. They mistake what's great about the drug experience for the drug itself. Or worse still seem to like a certain band all the more because they condone using drugs they themselves take, condone not using drugs, condone eating a certain diet, are from the same town as them etc etc. I don't think these things matter but they also don't, not matter. How's that for wishy washy?


Re: Drugs
February 12, 2014, 07:33:46 PM
Could it be that the bright youth among us are so disillusioned with the direction of their society and therefore their own lives that even they are constantly contemplating any possible way to alleviate the mind numbing boredom and depression of our modern civilization?

You answered your own question. Well said.

Building on what aquarius posted, I'd like to add that people clinging to opinions is a larger problem in itself. Even when presented with cold hard evidence that dismisses what their opinion states, many will hold fast to that opinion. Why? 'Every opinion matters and is equal' in our society (that is of course unless you have an opinion which falls outside the socially acceptable morass of opinions).

For most folks, the drug in question that they use frequently becomes their end. They push off more important things to acquire and do said drug. As previously stated - if one can take a few puffs of a joint every other month, or have a pony of whiskey every night before bed and still succeed then great! More power to them. However most cannot do this.

An example of positive usage in my experience is a close friend who uses weed to alleviate spinal problems (curved spine, compressed discs, generally pretty painful shit) because he distrusts pharmaceutical painkillers like Hydrocodone. He's able to function as well as one can for having a shitty back, otherwise.

Also, I think that humans have been generally fascinated with drugs since they were discovered. Something that alters one's state of mind will always be of interest to certain people - for the right or wrong reasons. 

Re: Drugs
February 13, 2014, 10:22:21 PM
First post, how are you all doing?

Drugs is a very broad term so I am hesitant to say anything without referring to a specific drug (or category thereof) that has its own unique qualities, behaviors among its users, and rationale for its usage. But in general, conversations I have heard about drugs, however, give so little attention to what it is that drugs get people away from, which is sobriety, or existence as usual (it is as if existence itself is so intrinsically valuable,  self justified, and worthwhile that any change to it by way of drugs or death is a necessary evil). This is the objective state in which users seek to remedy (for reasons good and bad that others have touched upon). This is obvious when someone uses a painkiller but also in drugs like alcohol to unwind, or an addictive drug like heroin, in which nothing in normal existence compares to how good it feels to be high on it. Regarding using drugs in one of their positive senses, where one comes back from a psychedelic trip having 'gained' something after coming down, this too proceeds from a lack or scarcity of transcendental experiences in our normal mode of existence. Here users seek to add to something onto their existstence that might otherwise be unavailible.

It really comes down to wanting more than bare existence which crushes us with boredom and agonizes us with physical and emotional toil. This reaches so far beyond modern civilization, which is the only context that we can personally observe, and so it is easy to attribute negatives, e.g. depression, boredom, disillusionment,  to it whereas these said negatives have their source in our psychology. It is our internal makeup that makes us receptive to drugs in the first place (i.e., physiology, psychology), while exterior factors (i.e., cultures, availibility) certainly play the role in realizing their use.

In other words, existence, which in its basic form is sobriety, forces us to look at the world in the face. After a while we get tired or don't like what we see. Drugs are like to a lense which colors the world temporarily in a new light (I don't intend to advocate anything here but just point out that drugs play a role in a larger problem of existence).

Re: Drugs
February 13, 2014, 11:14:57 PM
You're confusing socialization with existence. People with reality. City folks often do that.
Subtract the people, along with the crazy shit that people do, and existence becomes rich and rewarding.
Drugs can enhance that, too, but existence - in its pure form - really needs no enhancing.


Re: Drugs
February 14, 2014, 01:18:27 AM
I think I see your point but doesn't that reinforce the idea that existence has a generally negative character? Socialization is an aspect of existence and by withdrawing from people and their crazyness to live in solitute we leave behind some of the problems of city life, but now have a wholley new set of inconveniences that begin to present themselves. Additionally, drug use between rural and city folk only varies in its external factors. The desire to depart from our basic sober mode of existence would remain the same because that desire remains in us,  as subsequently claimed.

There are some people that I can barely tolerate unless I have a few drinks.

Re: Drugs
February 14, 2014, 01:36:51 AM
There are some people that I can barely tolerate unless I have a few drinks.

Why tolerate those people at all, unless you are obligated to interact with them? Throw away the crutch and learn to walk without it!

Drug use does seem to usually be an exercise of escapism and hedonism. Given life in a society that disgusts us and makes us weak, that does not surprise me. Also, I agree with crow. Take away the garbage, make life rewarding, and the urge to escape diminishes.

Welcome, by the way!

Re: Drugs
February 14, 2014, 02:19:22 AM
Another fallacy that many people indulge is the idea that people and people-stuff are as much a part of reality as anything else.
Not so!
This shows a complete lack of awareness of what reality is.
Reality is the pre-existing state of things, before the craziness of people and people-stuff is overlaid upon it.
People have a choice: they can live in keeping with reality, or they can live counter to it.
I always equate - by the way - Reality, with God. Which suddenly puts the whole idea of God into sharp relief.


Re: Drugs
February 14, 2014, 04:49:41 AM
Another fallacy that many people indulge is the idea that people and people-stuff are as much a part of reality as anything else.
Not so!

This is the essence of nihilism: we reject human notions, and prefer reality itself.

This eliminates many favored ideas and darlings of the herd...

Re: Drugs
February 14, 2014, 05:13:45 AM
There are some people that I can barely tolerate unless I have a few drinks.

Why tolerate those people at all, unless you are obligated to interact with them? Throw away the crutch and learn to walk without it!

I completely agree.  People are so restrained by the urge to be accepting, and as a result, even the most strongly held beliefs take a back seat to their false sense of kindness.  Be self-reliant, not selfish!   

Re: Drugs
February 14, 2014, 06:36:41 AM
Another fallacy that many people indulge is the idea that people and people-stuff are as much a part of reality as anything else.
Not so!

This is the essence of nihilism: we reject human notions, and prefer reality itself.

Interesting if we apply crow's "equation":

Quote
This is the essence of nihilism: we reject human notions, and prefer god itself.

Wow!

Re: Drugs
February 14, 2014, 05:34:27 PM
It's actually ludicrously simple, which is why humans never seem to get it, preferring instead to pile complexity upon complexity...
We are born into an existing system that far predates us and will far outlive us. We live by virtue of it being there, while it can do just fine without us. This naturally suggests we respect that system. We live by virtue of it alone.
Being continuously aware of this fact, we are completely alive.
The further away we move, by dismissing this fact, the more dead we become.

It makes absolute sense to revere that which gives us life and sustains that life.
So everything comes down to a stance towards life. An attitude.

IT > me.

That's the only important 'equation'.