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The way things are - The way things ought to be

No, that's fine. But that is nothing like the way things are for me.
I know when I am thinking. I see thoughts. Hear them.
Thus I notice, easily enough, their absence.
What is abundantly clear to me, now, after years of writing about all of this, is that pretty much nobody has any idea of what I am talking about. Some are able to take it at face value and leave it alone, but those are few.
The single exception I have seen, recently, is 03-04, who seems to have gone into hibernation. And I suppose, two Indian gurus I happened across, some years back, and wrote to, copiously.

I stand behind all I've said. This isn't a case of poor communication from my end, but more a case of presenting ideas and primordial truths that almost nobody can apparently even grasp.

Robinson Crusoe, that's me!


I have done a little meditation today where I let my mind run freely, but from time to time, some mondain thoughts came rushing in and I felt the difference between the two state. The free mind was more chaotic but more vivid, and the mondain thoughts were more rigid but at the same time less real, like a screen bloking what was going on outside. I'm only begining that kind of meditation so in everyday life, I'm stuck with the screen but i'm not realising it as I write that text. I don't know if that's a similar experience as you described above.

To me, the thinking state is like utter chaos, compared to the Zen-like no-mind state.
I call it Zen-like, because what else could I call it?
It's a bit like a tightly-wound spring, ready to explode into action at any hint of need, yet utterly still and clear, with no hint of the implied stored-up energy.
Free-falling through space, with gravity, but no bottom to crash into...


maybe I have reach the ''spring'' but the water is sill blurry and agitated, or I am simply not there yet.

Not sure what's going on in this thread, too many words. I will say the following:

Thoughts are loud. I do not like thinking. One of the dangers of my education is that it forces me to think all of the time. I think so much that my brain is now stuck in a thinking mode; when I want to turn off the thoughts, I cannot, and this makes me very sad. I hope that one day I can "cool down" my severely overheated brain, or better yet, turn it off. Thinking is overrated. I remember the last time that my mind was clear, and the memory is a fond one.

You know what else is overrated? Science. Seems like the more people attempt to explain and hypothesize everything, the further they get from experiencing anything and, hence, knowing anything. Seems like a lot of effort to do a bunch of insane stuff. I think that humans "know" way too much nowadays in general. Information overload. I say stop analyzing everything; it is best to know what is necessary in order to live successfully, and no more.

You know what else is overrated? Science. Seems like the more people attempt to explain and hypothesize everything, the further they get from experiencing anything and, hence, knowing anything. Seems like a lot of effort to do a bunch of insane stuff. I think that humans "know" way too much nowadays in general. Information overload. I say stop analyzing everything; it is best to know what is necessary in order to live successfully, and no more.

If it wasn't for the science you deride, you wouldn't be able to have the time, equipment, and safety/comfort to enjoy a piece of Bach's, or a zen session. So you're experiences would be limited. So perhaps things balance out in the end, hey?

You know what else is overrated? Science. Seems like the more people attempt to explain and hypothesize everything, the further they get from experiencing anything and, hence, knowing anything. Seems like a lot of effort to do a bunch of insane stuff. I think that humans "know" way too much nowadays in general. Information overload. I say stop analyzing everything; it is best to know what is necessary in order to live successfully, and no more.

If it wasn't for the science you deride, you wouldn't be able to have the time, equipment, and safety/comfort to enjoy a piece of Bach's, or a zen session. So you're experiences would be limited. So perhaps things balance out in the end, hey?

This is the exact type of response that I anticipated, haha :P I suppose that my statements seem spoiled and ignorant to you? I was generalizing, anyway.

There is truth to what you say. Perhaps I don't know the value of my circumstances because they are my norm. However, I will never know whether any of it is necessary unless I abandon it, and I have reason to believe that doing so is a beneficial decision.

Anyway, I was mostly attacking the over-analyzing thought process and mindset that so many humans have, and that I think is foolish.

Not to pick apart your examples, but I often think to myself that there really is no point in listening to music. It's totally unnecessary. I should probably stop altogether.

Aha :)
Now there's a seriously good idea.
Better yet: save it only for special occasions, where you can give it your whole attention, and forego the rest.


Aha :)
Now there's a seriously good idea.
Better yet: save it only for special occasions, where you can give it your whole attention, and forego the rest.

I sometimes think the same. I listen too much, and have switched to podcasts a bit more instead. I prefer even more to play music with other people - but this is nearly impossibly as of late due to circumstances.

Also, I feel like posting to the 'band you are listening to today' thread in the metal boards more, but then think, this isn't a kill tally.

You are on your way to killing the consumer inside you.
Congrats :)

You know what else is overrated? Science. Seems like the more people attempt to explain and hypothesize everything, the further they get from experiencing anything and, hence, knowing anything. Seems like a lot of effort to do a bunch of insane stuff. I think that humans "know" way too much nowadays in general. Information overload. I say stop analyzing everything; it is best to know what is necessary in order to live successfully, and no more.

If it wasn't for the science you deride, you wouldn't be able to have the time, equipment, and safety/comfort to enjoy a piece of Bach's, or a zen session. So you're experiences would be limited. So perhaps things balance out in the end, hey?

This is the exact type of response that I anticipated, haha :P I suppose that my statements seem spoiled and ignorant to you? I was generalizing, anyway.

Then I am glad i did not disappoint!

Not spoiled, just slightly too dismissive of modernity, in my opinion.

Nothing is as black and white as it first appears.

You are on your way to killing the consumer inside you.
Congrats :)

To practice meditation to the point where you can take this mindset around with you - while you are active (i.e. getting buses, driving, walking in city)...

Now that would be ideal. Sometimes it happens. Rarely.

If you can manage that, in a city, you're a better man than I.

Then I am glad i did not disappoint!

Not spoiled, just slightly too dismissive of modernity, in my opinion.

Nothing is as black and white as it first appears.

Heh, I did not want that type of response, so I was indeed disappointed. So if you are being sarcastic, I cannot tell.

My point is this: over-thinking (sometimes any thinking at all) and over-analyzing is not beneficial. I have not the time to elaborate further presently.

Then I am glad i did not disappoint!

Not spoiled, just slightly too dismissive of modernity, in my opinion.

Nothing is as black and white as it first appears.

Heh, I did not want that type of response, so I was indeed disappointed. So if you are being sarcastic, I cannot tell.

My point is this: over-thinking (sometimes any thinking at all) and over-analyzing is not beneficial. I have not the time to elaborate further presently.

Yes, I was being cheerfully sarcastic.

Try looking at what you, and nearly everybody else does, as processing.
What is processing, anyway?
You take something - in the raw - and change it into something else. Usually for ease, or convenience. You do this via desire. Desire for a result that the original thing does not seem to supply. Think Kraft Cheese Slices. It bears very little resemblance to actual cheese. And that is what happens with mental processing. You end up with an understanding based upon what you have done to the original data, but not the original data, itself.
My one point is this:
Suspending intellect, you get a clear picture of things as things are, rather than what you have turned them into, by processing them. This I learned from a crow.
Call it intuition, or instinct, or whatever you feel comes closest. But whatever it is, it isn't intellect.
We are taught, early on, to process everything and subject it to intellect.
But what is the consequence of that?
Eh?

Hmmm, but even the very simple act of perceiving something (like a crow), even before all processing, as you call it, is changing it from something that it is (particles, and their properties organised in a specific way to produce crow-behaviour) to something that it is not (light waves - and then, electrical signals in our brains).

I think the only way we come to know that this is the case, is via what you're calling 'processing': higher-level, analytical thought!

So by suspending intellect, we do not get a clearer picture of what things really are like, we are, as Plato would have thought, deceived. (And weren't you using analytic processing to get across your own point just now?) I know you're not going to like this, and it is not meant to challenge your worldview, as much to offer my own.

There is of course a big danger is being too analytic, and too intellectual. But what makes us special is that we can switch between these modes, when each is appropriate. When you look at a crow, or the stars, or a beautiful naked woman, you don't want to be thinking analytically all the time. But when it comes to knowing 'things-in-themselves' - then we don our Newton, Einstein, Watson or Crick hats and bow to the mystery (and then sometimes this forces you to stop thinking analytically - for sometimes it is too incredible to put 2 and 2 together and think of yourself as a manifestation of charges and particles. Sometimes you just need to sit and exist without-thinking).

I don't know that being over analytic is too much of the danger. It is dangerous to losing the correlation between the models and the things they are meant to represent. That's just the analytical side. The reflective side has it's own problems: abandoning all models for the reason that they are not the things they describe.

I'm going to go ahead and highlight an important point you made:

Our brains are literally compiling the world we see before us moment to moment from raw sensory data. If this conversation is to have any meaningful outcome, it's best we make a distinction between willed processing and the type of processing which compiles and presents reality to us.