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February 20, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
O dread and silent Mount! I gaz'd upon thee,
Till thou, still present to the bodily sense,
Did'st vanish from my thought: entranc'd in prayer
I worshipped the Invisible alone.

From the Hymn Before Sunrise
By S. T. Coleridge

Re: Sense
February 20, 2014, 04:18:17 PM
Did the mountain vanish into invisibility?
Does one see oneself without a mirror?
Becoming the mountain, does one cease to see it?
Is this the meaning of the verse?

Re: Sense
February 20, 2014, 04:30:04 PM
Sometime in dreams, I can be both at the third person and the first. So I can see myself (my body)  from an external pint of view and have a connection to the body at the same time. So if we become someone or something, we can still see it.

The thing is: is the dream real? What's the nature of the dream?

Re: Sense
February 20, 2014, 04:37:14 PM
Some refer to what you describe as astral-projection, others as soul-travel.
I view it as abstraction. Which is not to demean the experience.
But as you ask: WTF is it?

I am at my very-most-contended-est when I have no view and no sense - at all - of my physical form.
It was far beyond pleasant, becoming a mountain!

Re: Sense
February 20, 2014, 04:57:24 PM
I don't think myself it was soul travel. It was more like in a videogame when we can change the perspective of the playing character. Zoom in, zoom out.

Maybe the dreams are just simulations to practice what can be done in real life.

I think I'm to attached right now to be able to have no view and no sense of my physical form. It must be great though to have that feeling

Re: Sense
February 20, 2014, 05:01:30 PM
That, I imagine, is what I was getting at, without realizing it.
Attachment to the body, as being who one is, runs deep.
Even when the authentic 'you' tries to fly free, the body wants to tag along.
Difficult to send it home to wait for your return.
Good dog. Stay!

Re: Sense
February 20, 2014, 06:06:54 PM
Good questions!

I often wonder, if the world of forms as experienced through the senses is transient (an idea extending across various teachings), why do I still find so much enjoyment in it? To behold nature, I donít cease to be myself but am content nonetheless. Immersed in the awe of sensory perception.

Could it be the self naturally finds where it belongs, independent from ego?

But if this is the case, why are deep (seemingly spiritual) connections and material attachment so inseparably at odds?

Also, lost_wanderer, you might find something interesting in this article on dream states.

Re: Sense
February 20, 2014, 06:16:26 PM
Senses exist for a reason. And like muscles, they improve in tone from frequent use.
Like muscles, there is nothing wrong with having them, unless one becomes obsessed with regarding them to the exclusion of all else.
This is why hallucinogens can make or break those who use them.
So many go for the visuals, man.
And judge their experience only by that.

Re: Sense
February 22, 2014, 03:06:40 AM
This is true. But a lot of people also go for the full-scale ego-death thing, seemingly without realizing they could find peace within themselves without the ego part attached to it. Maybe I'm wrong. But there's something altogether enrapturing about the texture of plants, the songs of the birds, the smell of the season, that mountain framed perfectly within the mind's eye.

I often watch my cats and think they seem to appreciate all of this, infinitely and without noticing. While due to evolution through the inflexibility of concepts and thoughts, not-noticing becomes the default state for most humans. It's a shame though as I've found there to be nothing more invigorating of life than this simple (cat-like) appreciation of nature on more than one occasion.