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Further ruminations

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 03:12:26 PM
I see no point in continuing this. Let it out of its misery.

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 03:50:04 PM
If you're looking for constructive conversation, it's not going to be found in the metal crowd. Period. Most metal heads are fatalists or to some degree drop outs. Fuck em.

If anything, an Amerika.org forum would be far more productive in building a real community around conservatism. Not simply towards the conversation end, but in organizing real community action; the next step after talking and building a loyal readership.

This seems like a good idea: kill this forum, and relegate metal commentary to discussions on the front page. The metal section on this board has almost died out as it is.

It seems like Amerika.org would be the better place to base the rest of it - there's an audience there who's already aware of what you're trying to get at. It could be a way to re-stimulate conversation with a new group who's not of the fatalistic type.

crow's said before that the standards over at amerika are different from dmu. This recent project seems like an attempt to force amerika's standards of discourse on metalheads - it may be more fruitful to just move it all over to amerika and allow the few metalheads who can obverse the rules over there.

The problem with this forum has been it's a holdover from the pre-DMU/amerika split.

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 05:42:12 PM
I appreciated the trouble you took to insert a small 'c' there, at the beginning of a sentence  :)
I've tried that in the past, and on a mac it's a difficult exercise.
That's good sense. I've long felt that with so many people interpreting nihilism as nothing more than fuck-everything, then there is no mileage to realized from trying to explain that nihilism can mean the exact opposite.
Dead-horse-kicking is only fun for so long.


My goodness, this one serious snowstorm we got going here in the Pacific-Northwest.
My nice modern socialist-Swedish Volvo was worse than useless, even simply trying to move it downhill into the second carport. Even with its goddamned snow tires and alleged all wheel drive.
While my rusty-trusty 1992 Pathfinder, which has never met anything it couldn't crawl through or over, gave yet another demonstration of why I just can't let it die.  If one can love a vehicle, then I love my Nissan.
My mac-mini draws little enough power that I can still - for now - get online, although the house is mostly in darkness.
Reality, or what?
Thank God for wood heat.

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 07:17:09 PM
I think there are some rare exceptions. On the backs of their work most survive.

The rest get exactly what they deserve, which is ripoffs and manipulation. They create the government we have, our social decay, metalcore and everything else that is decay-bound. They are inert, focused on themselves only, and as brave individualists they deny everything else.

They are the opposite of nihilism.

Why metal degenerated was that the people who automatically sought to do things, to sustain and maintain things, to uphold ideals with more than chatter, were driven out by those who wanted to me-too.

I think the same thing has happened here, and crow called people on it, and they got bitter. Those same people -- talk about giving back -- were not even throwing effort into the discussions. Just posing and being cool (neckbeard cool).

This happens in every "underground" anywhere. The people that they make rules for move in. Those people need rules. Otherwise, they just hog, steal and parasitize.

I think Audiofile should live, but the rest can burn with no loss to humankind at this point.

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 08:08:06 PM
I think there are so many treasures in these forums. You should probably leave it as it is and focus the energy on where you deem worthwhile.

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 08:40:43 PM
This actually ends up being a very good test:

Come up with a good argument why this forum should persist.

Otherwise, consider the countdown started. Crow, I and others who are not inert are looking forward to reclaiming this time, energy, server resources, etc. for something that succeeds.
This place is one of the few in the which the exchange of information, knowledge, and wisdom can take place. Like so much else, this place is cyclic in nature. So many used to bitch about Prozak clones and now apparently the hip shit is calling decent newbies copy-crows. It's nice to have a place where people speak plainly, even if the cost is that a lot of fags show up.

I understand the frustration, though. I mean, this is literally the best I could come up with and it's rather self centered. The negativity is parasitic. Maybe you could keep this place alive if for no other purpose than giving crow a place to crack intellectual skulls.

Anyway, I trust you'll make the right call.

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 09:16:06 PM
I think the same thing has happened here, and crow called people on it, and they got bitter.

No matter how many times this is repeated, it wont become true. A strange us vs. them has developed amongst contributing, intelligent users. Real nihilists vs. Fake nihilists, imposed by immediate exclusion. Name names (this goes for everyone) and see if you can demonstrate this before you take a step on its basis. Take more than a glance. There is value in this forum and it was there before crow, during and will be after if it persists. Do not consider yourself immune to an echo chamber of opinion.

What exactly is it that you want? In concrete terms. Do you want people to assist you with the running of the website? Whatever it is, state it as goals, in simple language. I am personally willing to do whatever you require as long as it is within my power.

Whatever it is you want or will do, please stop falsely blaming good people for whatever problems you see. It only reflects poorly on you. There are no kvlt neckbeards here. I watched this play out closely, and my own first negative response was after a user was banned mid-contribution, mid-explanation. Are any even agreeing that they observe a problem or just repeating your words back at you (If you see a problem, solve it i.e.)? With the threat of an instant ban, who will be honest except in an enormously guarded fashion?

I have gained a lot personally from this forum and would be very sad to see it go, especially over something as ridiculous as these events. That is my only argument. It is the only one I can give honestly. Nevertheless ultimately you run it and may dispense with it as you please. If it detracts too much from actual work then I would say your hands are tied.

P.S.: Who exactly said copy-crow? What was the context it was stated in? I have only seen it stated once, by Vigilance to Tree. Vigilance seems to still be around. It was a non-event (until...). The next step was an angry, threatening thread that referenced it and now it is on everybody`s lips? This is the kind of strangeness I see, disparaging decent people is what I bristled at in the first place (and am still doing). Did I miss something? Is it instead endemic?

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 09:43:33 PM
I am going to echo badmash's sentiments. This is all very dramatic, and it's a bit sad to watch. I am under the impression that the people here are all very intelligent, and that they are all magnitudes more similar to each other than they are to most people in real life. We are here because we share a fundamental view about the world. Perhaps spending too much time here amplifies the small differences between us? Certainly we can work past those differences.../peace and love

I think that Vigilance is very intelligent. His opinion of me, no matter what it may be, is not a big deal. And yes, that is the only time that I have seen the phrase copy-crow issued.

Perhaps I am not very perceptive, but I am not sure who the supposed poseurs are.

Re: Further ruminations
February 24, 2014, 10:02:50 PM
If anything, an Amerika.org forum would be far more productive in building a real community around conservatism. Not simply towards the conversation end, but in organizing real community action; the next step after talking and building a loyal readership.

Real community isn't started in a virtual forum. If the topics aren't already mainstream then a forum is going to inevitably have negligible impact. If they are mainstream in nature, it'll be redundant times ten thousand others like it and pretty pointless.

A discussion board can't resuscitate a vanishing art. Only artists can do that. Message boards are just news and thoughts flea markets where a few weekend vendors set up tables of different items of the day. Crowds of people will just blow through to see what's interesting and most of them are broke having nothing to offer except an anonymous visit.

Re: Further ruminations
February 25, 2014, 04:12:50 AM
I think Audiofile should live,

Yes, I would appreciate if the Audiofile part is kept whatever the overall decision is as it serves its function and I'm sure more people will take advantage of it as the site grows.

Re: Further ruminations
February 25, 2014, 12:12:19 PM
A strange us vs. them has developed amongst contributing, intelligent users. Real nihilists vs. Fake nihilists, imposed by immediate exclusion.

I've noticed that too. Nihilism acquires a fantasy credentialed status and a private forum image which can only come from loading it with social value. We true nihilists are the in-club you see.

I'd rather spend my time picking up ancient beer cans and tires to have my little patch of woods cleared before spring.


Re: Further ruminations
February 26, 2014, 02:40:51 AM
Ve still vant ze money, Lebowski, or veee fuck you up.

Anyway, if policing/maintaining the forum isn't rewarding for you don't do it. Political revolutions only seem to be successful when the instigators are tapping into preexisting sentiment in the crowd anyway - i.e. preaching to the choir. Icelandic vulcanism probably had more of an impact on the french revolution than any enlightenment ideals. Severely traumatic events are required before a person's protective relationship with the preexisting Symbolic Order/Big Other/god is shattered. Once gone, it can be arbitrarily replaced, since humans have a problem with being confronted by otherness without the "protective screen" of the symbolic order - easily observed by breaking the most trivial of social protocols and watching how people freak the fuck out.

TLDR: the existence of this forum isn't going to gain you any meaningful influence.

Despite how easy subcultures are to manipulate through false elitism and symbolic fetish objects (used to manufacture authenticity), its still pretty difficult to do something as trivial as convince the majority that Opeth is a shitty metal band. Bands like Metallica and The Exploited have their particular reputations due to their implicit relationship with the preexisting order. Case in point: http://www.revleft.com/vb/exploited-t41374/index.html?s=9f65bee504f45d6f246cd06174b7984f&

Explicit message:
Thank goodness i only have one track by them... Fuck the usa..
im gonna delete it. damn punk posers. :angry:
punk rock is music of the left, how dare them use it like that!!!

o yeh.. FUCK 'EM!!!!

Implicit Message:
Thank goodness that you know my net loss of social status is mitigated by me having only 1 track and not the entire collection! I'm going to delete it so nobody questions my authenticity, and to congratulate myself on how i uphold my (other's) ideals.  I guess its true though, not everyone can be as authentic as me, but luckily they can exist as a symbolic reference point in which i can elevate myself in relation to. Punk rock is the music of my demographic, how dare they appropriate our exclusive branding in that manner! Don't they know it makes us feel less special?

Oh yeah, i should probably include something emotive to fully parade my dedication.

Whatever, just turn Audiofile into a radio station and archive. Should be more interesting than dicking around on a forum.

Re: Further ruminations
February 26, 2014, 08:27:31 AM
From the about page:

It exists to spread two ideas: (a) that heavy metal is a form of art and not “entertainment” and (b) the origins of heavy metal are in the Romantic movement in art and literature, whose imagery and ideals it carries to this day.

Based on the quality of the content, it seems the site has done a great job of it's stated purpose.  The work speaks for itself.

However, the crux of the latest crisis to this site does not seem to concerned with the quality of its content.  It seems to be concerned with the quality of the audience it is reaching.

It has always been the exception, not the rule, that exceptional quality is recognized by the audience it deserves.  The popular trope with this sentiment is that great artists often die unrecognized.  The truth is that many great artist die and continue go unrecognized.

The contributors on deathmetal.org need to decide if the quality of the content or the quality of the audience has a greater bearing on them continuing to produce. If the work is not an end in itself, this site has been going about its purpose the entirely wrong way. 

Re: Further ruminations
February 26, 2014, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: Zarathustra
OF ALL that is written, I love only what a person hath written with his blood. Write with blood, and thou wilt find that blood is spirit.

It is no easy task to understand unfamiliar blood; I hate the reading idlers.

He who knoweth the reader, doeth nothing more for the reader.  Another century of readers- and spirit itself will stink.

Every one being allowed to learn to read, ruineth in the long run not only writing but also thinking.

Once spirit was God, then it became man, and now it even becometh populace.

He that writeth in blood and proverbs doth not want to be read, but learnt by heart.

In the mountains the shortest way is from peak to peak, but for that route thou must have long legs. Proverbs should be peaks, and those spoken to should be big and tall.

The atmosphere rare and pure, danger near and the spirit full of a joyful wickedness: thus are things well matched.

I want to have goblins about me, for I am courageous. The courage which scareth away ghosts, createth for itself goblins- it wanteth to laugh.

Re: Further ruminations
February 26, 2014, 12:40:36 PM
The forums have undergone several "purges" at this point - of members, and content. Not long ago, crow had a thread lauding the state of the forum and its members. What happened between then and now, exactly?

There is a continual discontent with the level of contribution from most people who post here, yet the percentage of contributors seems fairly consistent, staffing changes superficially. After a decade, contribution isn't growing as a result of the management's disregard for consistent, specific, and constructive criticisms that have been leveled (as an old coworker would say: "Indian not the arrow"*).

Ultimately, no one here will lament deeply if the forum is burned, and it should go without saying that all who choose to rest here are appreciative. The mature will move on, and so is life.

*This is an important relationship to parse, and comes only with proper craft.