Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Further ruminations

Re: Further ruminations
February 26, 2014, 11:52:29 PM
management's disregard for consistent, specific, and constructive criticisms that have been leveled

What are those?

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 03:18:41 AM
I'm amazed that not many among you are prepared to admit just what a tremendous loss the end of this forum would be. You have here at least one tiny bit of space where intelligent and interesting communication can occur, if you get rid of that then there is truly nothing. And if anyone here can remember the old (pre- corrupt.org) forum from 10 years ago, I'm sure you'll be able to attest to the improvements. Things have come a very long way!

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 05:01:03 AM
I like you, Aquarius. You're one of them 'humans' I've heard so much about, but so rarely run into, for the zombie hordes that get in the way.
You're right. You can easily recognize value, and still retain the capability to feel grateful.
What a weirdo  :)

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 01:30:27 PM
I'm amazed that not many among you are prepared to admit just what a tremendous loss the end of this forum would be.

I was similarly amazed but then considered that professing attachment to a forum might not sit well with some. Understand though, that what you and I consider value is apparently nothing in the eyes of the owner. Which is confusing and should be elaborated on in clear language, but unfortunately we have to wait a few weeks.

A forum is not going to change the world except in little ways, we take what we gain from here and apply it to our lives. A forum is not going to be anything more than a social club for the like-minded. It is that almost by definition. Those little things are enormously valuable in my opinion though, but not in everyone's.

The forums have undergone several "purges" at this point - of members, and content. Not long ago, crow had a thread lauding the state of the forum and its members. What happened between then and now, exactly?

Nothing.

That lasted barely a day I think. I keep repeating that the whole thing is a delusion. This person has become used to being persecuted and driven out, by his own admission, and only sees this mentality everywhere. On one of the few places where he is likely to gain traction or at least tolerance, he ends up creating a divide and a problem anyway. Part of it was giving such a person admin tools. There were never enough posters to be problem posters. I know each and every one of you is at least smart, and somewhat awakened to the world no matter what we may disagree on. I cant name a single (not one), "problem poster", or "neckbeard", at least not for the last 5+ years or so.

I have my own theories about the whole saga (the why, not the what), lets just say I think it ultimately takes root from the ANUS Criticism thread. That was fairly heated if anyone recalls. Brett (who does not really read the forums) got the wrong idea from it, perhaps compounded by frustration that Things (tm) were not Happening (tm). He puts crow in charge to get rid of a problem that doesnt exist and he eagerly obliges. Eventually we reach the current stage. It really is just comedy, I would laugh if I didnt have a personal stake in this place.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 01:51:26 PM
I'm amazed that not many among you are prepared to admit just what a tremendous loss the end of this forum would be. You have here at least one tiny bit of space where intelligent and interesting communication can occur, if you get rid of that then there is truly nothing. And if anyone here can remember the old (pre- corrupt.org) forum from 10 years ago, I'm sure you'll be able to attest to the improvements. Things have come a very long way!

The old forums were messy, mostly off topic and poisoned by constant e-drama, but they weren't an echo chamber, which is the mean the forums have tended to regress toward through several successive iterations of redesign and attempted repurposing.  The full on swerve into the minefield of racial politics in the middle of the last decade mostly drove away the remnants of intelligent opposition, and the flood of childish wreckers that poured in seems to have left the administration and the forum users here permanently wary of divergent viewpoints that weren't previously vetted (i.e. the estimable and invaluable crow).  That's a prescription for a clubhouse atmosphere, and that's generally what the forums have produced.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 02:45:52 PM
The only echo chamber here is caused by those who use the term "echo chamber".

The first post in this thread explained that a major problem with this forum has been that little contribution has emerged from it.

Then certain people show up and say that's perfectly normal, nothing wrong with that, and add they can't think of any problem posters (other than blaming crow).

Hmm...

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 03:04:50 PM
The only echo chamber here is caused by those who use the term "echo chamber".

The first post in this thread explained that a major problem with this forum has been that little contribution has emerged from it.

Then certain people show up and say that's perfectly normal, nothing wrong with that, and add they can't think of any problem posters (other than blaming crow).

Hmm...

Until crow was introduced into the ecosystem, forum "discussion" consisted—in essence for years at a time—of folks endlessly sharing viewpoints that the active forum community already believed.  The "discussion" was congenial and (for the web) erudite, but a congenial, erudite circle jerk is still a circle jerk.  Bring back Nile577.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 06:56:12 PM
Part of being a crow is getting blamed for everything, by everyone unable to see what crows can see.
I once had two cats that blamed each other for everything. They would take it in turns, being oppressor/victim.
Nothing could stop them, or interrupt the cycle.
It was vaguely amusing to see, in two cats.
It's just plain sad to see it in humans.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 07:02:33 PM
The only echo chamber here is caused by those who use the term "echo chamber".

The first post in this thread explained that a major problem with this forum has been that little contribution has emerged from it.

Then certain people show up and say that's perfectly normal, nothing wrong with that, and add they can't think of any problem posters (other than blaming crow).

Hmm...

Until crow was introduced into the ecosystem, forum "discussion" consisted—in essence for years at a time—of folks endlessly sharing viewpoints that the active forum community already believed.  The "discussion" was congenial and (for the web) erudite, but a congenial, erudite circle jerk is still a circle jerk.  Bring back Nile577.

You must be joking. Post introduction, all communication was overwhelmed by his presence eventually. Also it is entirely "on-message" stuff so that leaves me even more confused as to what you are saying. Most importantly, no one objects to the content.

Wild, if you know of a problem poster, I would like you to name them, please. My assessment of the situation may well be wrong, but I have not seen anything concrete to refute it from anyone. As for what has emerged from the forum, could you provide an example of what could realistically emerge from the forum in terms of accomplishment? There is too much vagueness to this whole business.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 07:26:46 PM
The only echo chamber here is caused by those who use the term "echo chamber".

The first post in this thread explained that a major problem with this forum has been that little contribution has emerged from it.

Then certain people show up and say that's perfectly normal, nothing wrong with that, and add they can't think of any problem posters (other than blaming crow).

Hmm...

Until crow was introduced into the ecosystem, forum "discussion" consisted—in essence for years at a time—of folks endlessly sharing viewpoints that the active forum community already believed.  The "discussion" was congenial and (for the web) erudite, but a congenial, erudite circle jerk is still a circle jerk.  Bring back Nile577.

You must be joking. Post introduction, all communication was overwhelmed by his presence eventually. Also it is entirely "on-message" stuff so that leaves me even more confused as to what you are saying. Most importantly, no one objects to the content.

Let's consider the following:

crow has been granted admin powers over the forum by Brett, who has supported him in his efforts thus far. There's nothing to indicate Brett would suddenly revoke this. Complaining about crow's presence has so far achieved nothing for you. In fact, it is part of a wider system of behavior which is leading Brett to consider closing the forum, which you claim to care about a great deal.

It may be time to re-examine cause & effect.


Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 07:28:01 PM
The message is inconsequential. Most will forever be unable to escape the automatic reflex to shoot the messenger.
Nihilism is a reset-button to set the stage to a universal lack of meaning.
OK. Nothing has any meaning. What next?
The next level is too high for many to consider rising to.
Far, far easier to simply get comfortable with nothing having any meaning, thus no purpose.
Fine. Fine.
Business as usual.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
Let's consider the following:

crow has been granted admin powers over the forum by Brett, who has supported him in his efforts thus far. There's nothing to indicate Brett would suddenly revoke this. Complaining about crow's presence has so far achieved nothing for you. In fact, it is part of a wider system of behavior which is leading Brett to consider closing the forum, which you claim to care about a great deal.

It may be time to re-examine cause & effect.

My friend I have only spoken up recently regarding this, when multiple bannings and unsubstantiated claims about the behaviour of forum users have reached a fever pitch. I have no illusions about achieving anything, but I also could not simply leave it alone for reasons I have already elaborated on. Are you able to demonstrate this wider system of behaviour? Remember that from the earliest, claims were made about conduct and creating an unwelcome environment for lurkers who would otherwise post. I have no intention of influencing Brett to remove these admin powers, I just think the entire thing was a mistake start to finish, an attempt to solve a problem that did not exist. Are you hinting at me being a problem poster outside of this saga?

Once again, if you are aware of any problem posters, I would like you to name them. This is not a challenge, simply a desire for me to be informed. I dont mind at all that conversation would circle entirely around crow, I have found plenty of his posts to have valuable insight.

Lets say I, or any other person that raised an issue regarding crow shut up or disappeared, would that address the complaints in the OP? Would that change anything regarding "useful" output from the forum? Also, could you please answer that as well? What kind of impact do you believe a forum like this can realistically have? What is not being done that can be?

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 08:16:00 PM
It's all fantastically simple, really.
A matter of viewpoint.
Any society, from the grandest empire, right down to a circle of mud huts, can only operate within certain boundaries. These boundaries are not imposed to prevent people from being 'free'. They exist so that people don't kill each other and poison their own life support systems.
If people were broadly capable of resisting the urge to do, and say, anything they felt like doing or saying, in the interests of the larger society, then such boundaries would not be necessary. But the truth is, most people are not capable of any such self-discipline, and so limits must be imposed upon them. That's the way it is, and has always been.
Either you understand this, which puts you in the conservative camp, or you don't, which puts you in the leftist camp.
The only other position is the one I have characteristically occupied for my entire life: sitting on a distant fence, with no interest in being in either camp.
There's no other place for crows to sit.
Hated by both sides, for not being sufficiently in either one, they eventually learn to not give a shit, and scavenge what they can, where they can.
But what they do accomplish, is to actually live.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 09:28:51 PM
Quote
My friend I have only spoken up recently regarding this, when multiple bannings and unsubstantiated claims about the behaviour of forum users have reached a fever pitch.

If you're fallot, you were opposed to crow's project from the very beginning.

If you're not him, which one are you? It's starting to become hard to keep track of.

Quote
I have no illusions about achieving anything, but I also could not simply leave it alone for reasons I have already elaborated on.

If you don't expect to achieve anything, then why the fuck are you still bothering with it? This is the type of bullshit that is decried in this thread's first post.

Quote
Are you able to demonstrate this wider system of behaviour?

Look up.

Quote
Are you hinting at me being a problem poster outside of this saga?

Yes.

Quote
Once again, if you are aware of any problem posters, I would like you to name them.

fallot, transcix, umbrage. [notice a pattern here?]

Myself, at times.

And a few others who managed to correct their bullshit. Unsurprisingly, these people are still around.

Quote
Lets say I, or any other person that raised an issue regarding crow shut up or disappeared, would that address the complaints in the OP? Would that change anything regarding "useful" output from the forum?

No, but it would make it a lot less goddamn annoying.

Quote
Also, could you please answer that as well? What kind of impact do you believe a forum like this can realistically have? What is not being done that can be?

Productive output.

This includes articles, propaganda, and acting like a functional human being.

A lot to ask for.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 09:35:45 PM
Nice. Somebody 'get's it'. Good luck trying to communicate it to those that don't.