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Further ruminations

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 01:37:47 PM
Nice. Somebody 'get's it'. Good luck trying to communicate it to those that don't.

It took me a long time.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 01:43:13 PM
It takes anybody a long time. That's why so few manage it.
However, once it kicks in, it's self-sustaining, rendering the endless bullshit from the laggards easily discernible for what it is.
People like Brett, and like me, and a handful of others, including you, don't need much success to have their efforts seem worthwhile. But they do, occasionally, need some.
Your single sentence made my day, and for that, I am very thankful.


Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 01:51:50 PM
Quote from: Wild
...

I am fallot/trystero, yes. No, I have not been against crow from the beginning. A member was banned, I was irked and expressed this. Subsequently I was banned as well. At this point I left things alone for months. The pattern continued: Calling out people that didnt exist for behaviour that was not occuring, then treating those who objected as that problem in the first place and silencing them.

I dont think I ever agreed with Transcix on anything, but I dont think he should have been banned. Especially not if anyone has an issue with diversity of opinion here. Umbrage was also a good poster, as are BillHopkins and Tral. If you consider these people problem posters then we have nothing to talk about as I dont consider any of these to have a negative effect on discourse here or preventing any kind of positive work.

Who was responsible for the original complaint?. That being there are posters here who create an unwelcome atmosphere, stifling conversation and preventing lurkers from speaking up? As for productive output, could you be a little more precise here? Articles on the deathmetal.org website? I already engage in "propaganda" unless you are referring to site-based stuff. Really this is very vague and nothing that has not already been happening surely? Also, we are not all on the same page when it comes to the non-metal aspects of this place, can a forum exist if it is only considered a recruiting ground for certain political goals?

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 02:05:57 PM
You take for granted the supplied medium upon which you superimpose your views, as if your views were the only reason for the medium to exist.
You could not express your views without the medium.
That is the nature of the problem, affecting you and several others.
You treat the forum, and those who supply and maintain it, in the same way you treat Reality.
Invisible. Meaningless. Taken for granted. To be shat upon while being used-up.

This is why the problem never goes away, because no matter how many times you and those like you are banned, you are so addicted to coming back and behaving in exactly the same way that got you banned, that nothing can ever change. Least of all your own consciousness.

It's a problem all right. The only obvious result of which is the eventual destruction of the forum.
Maybe then you'll be happy, and move on to the next target.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 02:16:06 PM
I have never done any such thing. I have never even argued negatively with anyone on this forum except yourself, and only about what I perceive to be your own dismissive and destructive behaviour (which makes Wild's cryptic "Yes" completely unfathomable). I mostly try to be completely non-confrontational. My posting history is public, if you are able to point something out I would be glad to address it. I have no desire to stir shit up for its own sake and will quietly leave shortly. I do not take this forum for granted at all, I simply would not bother if that was the case. But do point something out before you cast further aspertions.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 02:20:29 PM
You may have noticed I do not play your game by your rules.
What you have not yet noticed is why I write what I write.
Nothing is ever about me. And always about It.
Few can see that.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 03:28:02 PM
It's not difficult.
DM.org has specific, narrowly defined goals.
The forum is provided solely as a means to facilitate those goals, free to the user, and at the expense of the leadership.
Some on the internet believe a forum owes its users the right to "free speech."
There are plenty of forums that do so.  This is not one.
If you criticize the content, undermine the leadership, or stir up dissent, you interfere with the realization of the website's goals.
DM.org promotes ideas and behaviors.  Believing the leadership should contribute their own funds to provide someone a pulpit from which to undermine those ideas and behaviors is pure narcissism. 
Try contributing positive content, or simply do not post.


Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 03:43:13 PM
Hehe. Someone is one to whom popularity is not an important issue.
White Man speak much sense. Other White Man shoot him many time for this.

Maybe we should take a look at what a 'contribution' actually is...

Perhaps the most useful kind of contribution is one which allows the words of others to stand wile not being necessarily understood by the one letting them stand.
Being 'kind' is a good start to being useful, too. As opposed to being gratuitously and eagerly 'unkind'.
Agreement is no standard at all, from which to judge worth.
Agreement is actually rather pointless. Many of the most revered and famous people in history started out being reviled, hated, and ridiculed for their unpopular views. Where would humanity have been without them?

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 08:04:59 PM
Quick question: have ya'll considered some form of "pay to play" system for the forums (doesn't necessarily have to be in a literal sense)?

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 08:32:30 PM
I was discussing this very thing with Mrs. crow, earlier. Hard to make something like that work, though, especially since payment is not really the burning issue.
I prefer something along the lines of ability-to-comment by invitation/application only.
This might be outright preferable to the messiness inherent in banning users.
Continue to make everything free to passive users, with only reasonable behaviour rewarded with the ability to actively participate in discussion. Or rather, removing ability to comment from existing users.

It would be nice, eh, to not need admins at all, but that's not likely to ever be an option.


Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 08:53:28 PM
I was discussing this very thing with Mrs. crow, earlier. Hard to make something like that work, though, especially since payment is not really the burning issue.
I prefer something along the lines of ability-to-comment by invitation/application only.
This might be outright preferable to the messiness inherent in banning users.
Continue to make everything free to passive users, with only reasonable behaviour rewarded with the ability to actively participate in discussion. Or rather, removing ability to comment from existing users.

It would be nice, eh, to not need admins at all, but that's not likely to ever be an option.

Not sure how feasible this is, but this was my thought:

1. Remove posting access from all current accounts (or, perhaps, from select accounts).

2. Make the restoration of posting privileges contingent upon providing some sort of work or service to the ongoing project here.

3. Only activate the accounts of newly registered members after they fulfill step 2.

I imagine that someone among the "leadership" has some idea of the tasks that need doing.  Perhaps we could compile a master list of "things as needs doin'" and let folks choose an item or items from the list.  Once the tasks are completed to the satisfaction of the leadership, their posting privileges would be restored.  N00bs, would, of course, have to prove themselves useful in the same fashion. 

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 08:59:34 PM
Thank you. That in itself is a 'contribution'.
The Chief is probably reading this, even as we write it, and so already, it is under consideration.
In practical terms, I must choose a test subject to experiment on, with the scary little buttons.
I wonder who it could be...

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 09:11:12 PM
I'm not a deep thinker, but I've got a streak of pragmatism that runs deep and wide.

Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 09:44:57 PM
I'm not a deep thinker either, or rather, if I am, then it runs so deep as to be hidden from my own awareness altogether.
As for practicality, I have almost none, in terms of what is usually deemed practical. I don't have a clue.
But when seriously pushed, I can improvise, on a dime, in ways undreamed-of by those more practical.

Everybody seems to be good at something, although those somethings can sometimes be so unlikely that they mostly go unrecognized, even by those that seem to be good at them.


Re: Further ruminations
February 27, 2014, 10:12:15 PM
Often, I feel that people use the word "practical" to describe folks who are preoccupied with seeking feasible or easily attainable goals and the simplest, least-effort paths to achieving those goals.  In that sense, I'm not even remotely practical.  I think of pragmatism as being more of an openness to compromise, an ability to recognize when good enough is good enough (and when only perfect will do), and a certain ruthlessness toward the self.