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The problem with rationalism

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 04:48:06 AM
Speak for yourself, Kemosabe. I am here to tell you that it doesn't have to be so.
What do you imagine I've been saying all this time?
You don't know how. I do. STFU and learn something you don't know.
Not from me. The truth isn't mine. It is there, for you to find.
I'm only telling you it is there.



Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 05:04:47 AM
So you say.  I, alas,  have no vantage point to even begin evaluating the truth-value of your claim, but I don't doubt the sincerity.  Give me 30 years and maybe we'll see eye to eye, or perhaps I'll think you were full of shit all along.  For now, my instinct and what I think I know of the world suggests you're wrong, but I'm open always to the possibility that I really just don't know what the hell I'm on about.  Joy and peace to you and yours, my friend, and give me some time to chew on it a bit.

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 05:12:40 AM
You have my sincerest admiration.
Although saying what you have just said is the easiest thing there is, you are the only one who has thus far been able to say it.
You don't know yet. Yet. But now you do know it may be so.
Salute.

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 05:38:07 AM
I thank you for the kind words, though I don't see that I've really done much to deserve them.  In a world where everything is for sale and nothing is cheap, respect and an openness to being wrong still cost nothing.  You've done nothing to warrant disrespect, and much to suggest that your words be given due weight and consideration.

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 06:40:28 AM
Well, as the OP says: the trouble with rationalism:
Being rational concludes I am a total airhead who spews mystical nonsense that can't possibly be so.
Conversely, being mystical concludes that this may be so, and remains a possibility until proven false.

This is what it is to be a mystic. A simple thing. Suspend reason, until reason can no longer be suspended.
At worst, you may, at some future point, feel foolish. And if so, so what?

On the other hand, you may, through the suspension of reason, leave yourself with an attitude that allows the mystery to manifest. Being actually open-minded, unlike all those who claim to be, but are no such thing.

Reality is there to be experienced direct. One may always choose not to do this, and use reason, instead.
Most people do. It is normal. But it is, as you might say advanced, to live life like a crow, inside its day, not just looking-at, but being its life.

The crap life you lead, or a life of wonder, every moment, even after material death.




Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 07:14:58 AM
I kinda just figured that the cost of being wrong isn't typically as high as the cost of being wrong without preparing for the possibility of being wrong.  I'm a "rational" creature because I'm really not smart enough to be anything else.  I plod staidly through Data Points A-E to reach Reasonable Conclusion F; others leap there intuitively without the intervening steps.  To the extent that I have any real virtue, it's that I remember, so at least I can keep track of the shit I need to keep shuffling along.

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 04:31:10 PM
That made me smile while considering.
I'd never seen intellectuals as not very smart. Only that something rather important in them was missing.
Dunning Kruger has me almost completely overlooking my own intelligence, while focusing almost entirely on my intuition.
Perspective is probably the most important thing of all. The thing that decides where to focus, and where not to.

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 05:33:21 PM
I'm not sure there's as sharp a distinction between the two as you imply, as I'm suspicious that what we call "intuition" is often just a matter of a brain putting the pieces together so fast and so seamlessly that we precede from premise to conclusion without any conscious effort or awareness.

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 05:40:06 PM
Well, whatever intuition is, it seems to rarely be wrong.
Intellect introduces too many choices and conditions, necessitating decisions, and the greater chance of the wrong one being made. It takes far, far longer to operate, too.
See it as vision, with the naked eye, and all that it can see, as opposed to hiding in a muddy trench, during an artillery barrage, peering at the hostile world through the blinkered sliver of view afforded by a mud-spattered periscope.


Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 06:08:18 PM
As you say, perspective is the key.  When you're down in the trenches, you're down in the trenches and there's no help for that but to attain a higher vantage point, a point from which the way forward becomes clear.  Intuition is the view from the top that makes everything clear at once.  But how to gain the vantage point?  One way is to go "over the top," and take the hill so to speak.  This is, in truth, the usual method, the blood and bone method of reason, observation and painfully won experience.  Another is to stand on the shoulders of giants.

It helps if you were born with wings.

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 25, 2014, 06:34:56 PM
I wasn't. A crow offered me his. I didn't argue, call him a fake, or feel any need to become his disciple.
Hehe, a bit of irony there :)

Re: The problem with rationalism
April 26, 2014, 03:56:41 AM
I kinda just figured that the cost of being wrong isn't typically as high as the cost of being wrong without preparing for the possibility of being wrong.  I'm a "rational" creature because I'm really not smart enough to be anything else.  I plod staidly through Data Points A-E to reach Reasonable Conclusion F; others leap there intuitively without the intervening steps.  To the extent that I have any real virtue, it's that I remember, so at least I can keep track of the shit I need to keep shuffling along.

Unfortunately that's also an imposed narrative.

It's important to note that the worst error by far is the false diagnosis or solution. It both allows the problem to continue and launches us in a tangential direction in the name of a fix.