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Change...is good?

Azazel

Change...is good?
March 23, 2007, 12:45:21 PM
This site predominantly favours older releases, for good reason. It seems that many of the same bands fall out of favour once the band has made a change in direction. This change usually comes about due to the band not wanting to do the same thing over and over again (or, perhaps, due to pressures from the label).

My question is, what kind of change is considered good? Or is any change from the original 'formula' considered bad?

STS

Re: Change...is good?
March 23, 2007, 08:19:04 PM
Expanding ideas that are not meant to be stupid is when change is at itís most productive. Burzum typifies what was done right in this respect. K(c)ovenant changed too, but they replicated stupid ideas instead and this is why they are mostly unimportant.

Re: Change...is good?
March 23, 2007, 08:42:13 PM
it would be easiest to say it is when i band changes its focus and promotes ideals that affirm the ways of modern society as opposed to either a rational or romantic view of the world.

However i would be sure that this does not include all kinds of change that are undesirable among people from this site.

Re: Change...is good?
March 24, 2007, 03:37:20 PM
Modern ideals are 'rational' in their basis. Maybe you used the wrong word?

Re: Change...is good?
March 24, 2007, 03:39:39 PM
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My question is, what kind of change is considered good?


This is a tautology: good change is considered good.

Change toward known dummy elements like rock music, hip-hop, or pop, or any combination thereof, is not good change.

Change toward superficiality (slick aesthetic, weak composition/content) is not good change.

Any change that furthers the art form along the lines of its development since birth is good. Anything that attempts to adulterate it is not good.

The above is common sense, and can be observed in any genre with a strong ideal and aesthetic mode, e.g. not pop.

Re: Change...is good?
March 26, 2007, 05:53:09 AM
Quote
This site predominantly favours older releases, for good reason. It seems that many of the same bands fall out of favour once the band has made a change in direction. This change usually comes about due to the band not wanting to do the same thing over and over again (or, perhaps, due to pressures from the label).

My question is, what kind of change is considered good? Or is any change from the original 'formula' considered bad?


It all depends on you, if you like the change then it is good. If it sounds good to you why rob yourself of it just because someone says it's bad?

 Some people will like old opeth, while some prefer newer, it's all opinion and taste.

Re: Change...is good?
March 26, 2007, 10:26:36 AM
Quote

This is a tautology: good change is considered good.

Change toward known dummy elements like rock music, hip-hop, or pop, or any combination thereof, is not good change.

Change toward superficiality (slick aesthetic, weak composition/content) is not good change.

Any change that furthers the art form along the lines of its development since birth is good. Anything that attempts to adulterate it is not good.

The above is common sense, and can be observed in any genre with a strong ideal and aesthetic mode, e.g. not pop.


Interesting as the third type of change, the so called "right" change was the most vague. Perhaps Summoning would be a good example to illustrate, because they have kept the same theme running through all of their music but developed the sound to a great extent

Re: Change...is good?
March 26, 2007, 02:08:37 PM
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Interesting as the third type of change, the so called "right" change was the most vague.


It's the most described of any of the above. It's only vague (to you) because idiocy is easy to describe. "Pop crap" isn't vague in your world, is it?

Where did all these depressed and bitter people come from? Is there a Marilyn Manson forum nearby or something?


Re: Change...is good?
March 26, 2007, 02:22:13 PM
"Change toward known dummy elements like rock music, hip-hop, or pop, or any combination thereof, is not good change"

Why? As long as they have a healthy musical philosophy behind the art, who cares what music they combine with metal. We just haven't seen anything decent yet beyond a degenerate, shallow good listen with limited replay appeal.

Re: Change...is good?
March 26, 2007, 03:04:55 PM
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As long as they have a healthy musical philosophy behind the art, who cares what music they combine with metal.


"Dumb + smart" always makes smarter, doesn't it? You know nothing.


Re: Change...is good?
March 27, 2007, 10:16:02 PM
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It's the most described of any of the above. It's only vague (to you) because idiocy is easy to describe. "Pop crap" isn't vague in your world, is it?

Where did all these depressed and bitter people come from? Is there a Marilyn Manson forum nearby or something?



Firstly, how the fuck did you get depressed and bitter from what i said, that is quite an acheivement. Secondly, i've been on this forum longer than you, I know that doesn't mean i get a badge of honour, but this a reference to what you have said, i have watched your post count grow. And thirdly, i wasn't using the term vague as a criticism of what the admin said, only as an observation as to how true artistic progression can never be properly encapsulated into words. Which is understandable, because it wouldn't be art if it was easy to paint into a corner. Which means that the original posters question cannot be fully answered.

shadowmystic

Re: Change...is good?
March 28, 2007, 01:00:26 AM
Change is bad when a band sacrifices artistic integrity and attempts to introduce mainstream elements into their music usually to widen their audience (see Therion and Amorphis).  Change is bad when a band runs out of artistic ideas and changes style in the hope no one will notice (graveland - immortal pride).  Change is good when a band makes use of a new style to expand its artistic ideas and is often characterised by a gradual progression into a new style (burzum, darkthrone, bathory).

Re: Change...is good?
March 28, 2007, 02:26:19 AM
But their have been many threads on this site about the definition of art and none of them came up with any conclusive decision about the meaning, as such artistic integrity can mean a lot of things.

shadowmystic

Re: Change...is good?
March 28, 2007, 03:11:34 AM
But it is nearly always clear when a band deliberately incorparates mainstream elements into their music to expand their fan base.  I's say the more a band tries to appeal to the mainstream the less credit they have.  That doesn't mecessarily mean that all mainstream bands are bad though.

Re: Change...is good?
March 28, 2007, 10:11:50 AM
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But their have been many threads on this site about the definition of art and none of them came up with any conclusive decision about the meaning, as such artistic integrity can mean a lot of things.


For this reason it is best to explain the point through example.