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Influences that formed death metal

Influences that formed death metal
April 17, 2007, 03:53:46 PM
Here's my list:

1. Underground NWOBHM

Even more than the bigger bands, the weird stuff like Witchfinder General, Angel Witch, Tyrant and the rest of the also-rans who were more extreme. Oh, and maybe long-surviving AIDS patients Venom.

2. Hardcore Punk

Not radio punk like the Sex Pistols, honest hardcore like the Exploited, Discharge and the Misfits. Also thrash bands like DRI, COC and Cryptic Slaughter.

3. Motorhead

In 1976, Motorhead was what we had for hardcore punk and hardcore metal put together. Massively influential.

4. 1970s progressive and ambient

The structure of death metal songs resembles works by Yes, King Crimson, Rush and keyboard bands like Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream and Depeche Mode.

Add it all up, and that's death/black metal forming in 1983-1984 with Slayer, Poossessed, Hellhammer, Sodom and Bathory.

(Replacement thread for Slayer and Venom on their influences. (1985))


Annihilaytorr

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 17, 2007, 05:41:59 PM
Accurate, but incomplete, mostly as far as heavy metal goes.

You are totally leaving out Judas Priest, who have tremendous impact on Slayer. I am surprised to see you neglect Black Sabbath, who not only influence the metal you already named, but also the first wave directly.

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 18, 2007, 02:04:13 PM
Judas Priest was an omission.

Can't forget early punk either, Iggy Pop, Link Wray, and a ton of 1960s and 1970s bands I have heard but never knew the names.

Black Sabbath deserves mention, and then the "aesthetic" influences like Led Zeppelin, Def Leppard and Venom ;)

Annihilaytorr

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 18, 2007, 08:37:39 PM
The next substantial event that happens after the first wave of Death Metal is the rise of Grindcore from the extreme side of Punk expanding on the ideas of Skatethrash, Crossover and Hardcore, while adopting the aesthetics and image of Death Metal. Grind itself was a short lived and limited genre, but the inclusion of its elements into more complex forms of Death Metal, in the late 80s and early 90s is what helped bring us Morbid Angel, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, Suffocation, Cryptopsy and Therion to name a few.

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 19, 2007, 03:05:14 PM
Quote
Grind itself was a short lived and limited genre, but the inclusion of its elements into more complex forms of Death Metal, in the late 80s and early 90s is what helped bring us Morbid Angel, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, Suffocation, Cryptopsy and Therion to name a few.


Did it, really? Therion sounds like Celtic Frost, Morbid Angel sounds like Necrovore/Possessed. A few years later you had Cryptopsy and Suffocation. Bolt Thrower and Carcass, yes of course. Carcass was pure Napalm Death-derived grind.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 19, 2007, 08:13:35 PM
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Did it, really? Therion sounds like Celtic Frost, Morbid Angel sounds like Necrovore/Possessed.


You have to be smarter than this.

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 02:38:06 AM
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You have to be smarter than this.


I think you're saying similar things.  Obviously, via Pete and TERRORIZER, MORBID ANGEL streamlined their percussive side on "Altars," but melodically and conceptually they are far more in debt to the bands mentioned (and they dropped a lot of the overtly grindcore-type drumming on the following album.)  Similar idea with THERION.

Also, this is directed at nobody in particular, but it would help if we could be less trite with each other this time.  I'd hate to see it fall apart like some other recent threads because there is bound to be some good information within.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 08:27:29 AM
The grind elements are all over Therion's first album. Songs like A Suburb to Hell and Genocidal Raids are good examples of grindcore elements incorporated into a larger picture. Slayer/Kreator styled speedmetal and USDM like Altars of Madness are just as much a part of that album as Celtic Frost is anyway.


If you can't find the link between grind and Morbid Angel get out of metal.

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 08:50:10 AM
You've missed Repulsion, one of the more influencial grindcore acts.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 09:23:39 AM
We had not discussed any specific grindcore bands, so we really didn't have an opportunity to miss Repulsion.

Repulsion, unlike other bands identified in early grindcore, were always more a part of the early death metal scene, and not a crust or hardcore band that evolved into grind and then death metal later, like a Napalm Death.

Their first demo is called "Toxic Metal", vs Napalm Death's first being called "Punk is a Rotting Corpse".

Nile577

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 09:49:45 AM
"Hello this is me...the one and only!....the bastard! the one that does not care what you think or want? This is me! the beginning!!! The One that broke all the rulez...It's me the one who woke up one day? and said to myself? Hey? let there be changes! Let there be Speed!!! Unlimited!!! ...and so? it all started there.....with me; but then there were more?....Hundreds and hundreds will follow the same road! The one I proudly created!!! back on the middle of 85'!Ummmmmmm? wow!! over 20 damn yrs. ago? Wow!! what A Godfather of this genre! I have become! :))!! Fuck Yeaaahhhh!!!What a hard long road to the top this has being!! and still not there yet? well? So long you all!! and remember?? there are no rulez!...not one to brake.......or is it????... "NO PAIN NO GAIN" I say....."

- Pete Sandoval

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=31638456

(Clearly Pete Sandoval has contracted HIV)



Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 12:25:55 PM
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If you can't find the link between grind and Morbid Angel get out of metal.


I explained one link.  What are the others in your opinion?

Clearly there is "grind" in a lot of the formative stuff, but as another pointed out it is often via REPULSION, who are as you pointed out more proto-death/death than grind via punk/crust.  The latter is what I don't hear as much of in a lot of what has been mentioned (as far as overarching influence goes).

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 12:40:08 PM
Morbid Angel was pre-grind and almost purely death metal.

Deathgrind came after Suffocation, mostly, and was a middle 1990s thing.

Grindcore is over-fucking-rated. There are four good bands, maybe, and the rest are caffeinated punk.


Annihilaytorr

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 03:38:53 PM
I was talking to Born for Banning. You did explain the link, but I think they carry the grindcore influence in the drums on all their albums.

Terrorizer (a grind band featuring MA members) had an LP the same year as Altars of Madness, and Napalm Death's Scum was widely known in 86. Blast beats come from grindcore. How can you not know this, and not hear the grind in Morbid Angel? Show me drumming like that in Necrovore or Possessed, please.

Like with Venom, b4b has some aversion to accepting something he perceives as negative or stupid as part of the history of DM. As the Venom thread has shown, all it takes is a sharp tongue lashing to bring em' around.

Re: Influences that formed death metal
April 20, 2007, 03:55:57 PM
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Did it, really? Therion sounds like Celtic Frost, Morbid Angel sounds like Necrovore/Possessed. A few years later you had Cryptopsy and Suffocation. Bolt Thrower and Carcass, yes of course. Carcass was pure Napalm Death-derived grind.

Therion does indeed, but they also draw influence from the Swedish Hardcore scene of the late 80s of which side-project Carbonized is admitably a closer comparison.