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Summoning make stand against fascism

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 12:36:30 PM
Unbelievable what cheesy irony and low humor i have to read here.
read carefully my statements then you see that i don't like hip hop at all.

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 12:43:40 PM
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That's racism against my culture!!!!!!  >:( :'(


it seems that i need to explain the word racism to you.
but no problem i can do this favor for you.
racism means to explain all aspects of the personality of a person by his race. i did not say that i dont like hip hope because it is done by black nor did i tell anything about your personality because of the race you told you belong to.

Michael_Gregor

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 12:48:51 PM
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i just said that without blues there would be no rock music and therefore no metal and therefor not summoning. so lets change my lines and say metal music is not pure white music, it is a music with multi-cultural roots. i did not say that metal music sounds still like blues i just said that it was the origin,and therefore no nazi black metal band should think they make pure white music because it definitely is not white. so what are actually the Celtic roots in Blues?


Scottish roots of 'Black music'

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 12:50:52 PM
Rather than making corrections, why not erase the whole thing ? If you really want to care, you could just say that although it has come to your attention that people have used Summoning music as a soundtrack for a Nazi video, you do not share these beliefs. It would take two lines on your homepage, rather than a whole page. When you write a whole statement like that, people can only wonder why you need so much justification.

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 01:32:21 PM
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Scottish roots of 'Black music'


i will take a detailed look at that page later when my mind is more fresh.
anyway rock music has black influences and changed the face of this music, no matter if it has celtic ones as well.

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 01:38:21 PM
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Rather than making corrections, why not erase the whole thing ? If you really want to care, you could just say that although it has come to your attention that people have used Summoning music as a soundtrack for a Nazi video, you do not share these beliefs. It would take two lines on your homepage, rather than a whole page. When you write a whole statement like that, people can only wonder why you need so much justification.


i never saw it as justification. did "varg vikernes" nazi statements ever sound to anyone as kind of "justification". i guess not.

i rather would feel like a coward if i would have removed the videos from youtube and did not have the balls to explain the reasons detailed. i talk about so much stuff not connected to music in interview. why is it not ok to talk about political things?

i received one day a letter from a black brasilian guy who asked me if i will replay him although he is black. one day a j-e-w-i-s-h summoning fan wrote me asking me if i hate him cause of his "race". i hate that, and dont want any fan feel uncomfortable writing me just cause of his "race".

and also i think it is a bad situation that the only official political statments in the black metal scene are the ones done by varg and that there are no alternatives.

so tell varg to remove his files and all people up uploded them. if they do i will remove them as well;-)

and it is clear for me that people tending to the nazi ideologies do their best to make me sound as a pure idiot. in this forum you can easily see that no matter what i do they find a reason why i am an idiot. for example one guy blamed me that i was searching for nazi infos on net. if i would not have ever done this surely some would have blamed me that i only deal with one side and dont take attentions to the opposite sides.
so if i just would write that i don't share my believes without any explanation, they would even more accuse me to work because of political correctness, because i can not even explain why i dont share those ideologies. but if you agree with them or not, you can see that i spent time with them and got infos due to my experiences and did not just repeat some lines i read in some antifa forums. isnt it cool to stand for an ideology, is being silent really better for you?

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 01:44:57 PM
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Rather than making corrections, why not erase the whole thing ? If you really want to care, you could just say that although it has come to your attention that people have used Summoning music as a soundtrack for a Nazi video, you do not share these beliefs. It would take two lines on your homepage, rather than a whole page. When you write a whole statement like that, people can only wonder why you need so much justification.



This is what I was thinking too. Why bother explaining your personal ideas to a bunch of moronic neo-nazis and in the meantime confuse your fans? I wouldn't even have known that such videos existed if I wouldn't have read about them on the Summoning website. Do you feel that there has been an increase in racism in black metal? I think because of the NSBM trend it is easy to know which bands are into national-socialism and which ones aren't, and a lot of the better known bands which were once suspected of racism are not considered nazi bands anymore. There will always be people who misunderstand or misinterpret music, but they are only a minority. As demonstrated bringing up the issue of politics to this level only raises more issues. Please stop and let us focus on your music again, which by the way is excellent.

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 01:52:21 PM
Protector, you're free to say whatever you want on your website, but I think that this statement, in its current form, is a bad move and only brings confusion. As I said, I think it would be perfectly fine if Summoning just said on their homepage that they're non-political and do not share the views expressed in the videos that used their music on Youtube.

Iconoclast

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 01:54:56 PM
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It is strange. when "Varg Vikingers" made his rassistic statements although is music was also not connected to politics, i did not hear many people from the black metal scene complain about it. You are right that the music of summoning was never so much connected to nazi ideologies; so why should we have any fear of authorities. why is it so hard to imagine for most in the forum that i have many friends from various countries and really really get pissed of about those neo nazi tendencies and therefore feel the strong desire to make my position clear. why is it only ok for non political bands to say nazi stuff, why not ok to say the opposite? is it also so hard to understand that i dont feel comfortable if people are using my music for spreading political ideas with my music? i guess many in this form who make music would not like if their music is used for j-e-w-i-s, islamic etc propaganda. whats wrong of having ideologies?


I think a lot of it is that people in BM find politically correct (regardless of the validity) beliefs subversive, thus they're more likely to attack your statements rather than Varg's.  Nonetheless Varg makes some pretty retarded statements, like comparing races to computer processor architectures.

I suppose it is kind of like Chuck "Tumor" Shuldiner wearing a shirt with cats on it to prove that death metal isn't for abusing animals; nobody in DM feels abusing animals is a good thing, but saying otherwise reeks of weakness and being pathetic (in addition to ruining a funny gag).    Hell, people like Glen Benton of Deicide made a joke of it, to get laughs off the gullible people who were disconnected from reality.

The main problem is that saying "Summoning is and never was connected to NSBM; any thought to the contrary was a misconception" is far more productive than writing a manifesto that reeks of political correctness.  Hell, even saying "Fuck off, nazis" would've been cool too.   I can totally understand wanting to distance yourself from NSBM and having friends who aren't white, but going into how the music was developed by non-whites seems quite a bit defensive and makes you look like you're using servile lip service to the crowd.... especially over a fucking youtube video.

I suppose, to summarize it, the problem is that you felt necessary to distance yourself from society by appealing to rather socially acceptable values, instead of just clarifying your beliefs (or lack thereof in regards to NS).  If that makes sense to you.

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 02:07:33 PM
I personally mentioned Kreuzweg Ost (apart from the obvious relation that exists with Summoning) because I got the impression that the guys involved with this project decided to show through music their view of things concerning a controversial topic such as the rise and fall of the 3rd Reich and WWII in general is, without caring about any negative reactions thay may get from people that don't actually understand this point of view. I know that Kreuzweg Ost has nothing to do with Nazism or any kind of political ideology in general. But this is obvious to anyone who actually listened to their music and they didn't have to apology to anybody or make any particular statement even if they were accused of being Nazis or supporters of right-wing ideology or whatever. What I'm trying to say is that every intelligent Summoning fan knows what Summoning is about and that it has nothing to do with Nazism. So why write a lengthy apology about the fact that some people used your music in a way that you don't approve and not (as mentioned above) just ask for the videos to be removed (which you have absolutely the right to ask for) and stop there? Apologizing for something that is 100% obvious (that Summoning has nothing to do with Nazism) could make some ignorant people believe that you actually feel guilty for something that you definetely shouldn't feel guilty at all.


PS: Though it doesn't have anything to do with the topic, I'd like to say that concerning the origin of Turks it is the other way around. The first Turks originated in Central Asia (Turkestan) and were a Mongolic Asian tribe. They looked like the way today's people in the former soviet states of Central Asia looke like (straight dark hair, epicanthic fold). Turks later migrated to the west and if there exist today european looking or blonde Turks, it is because they mixed with the european populations of the conquered lands (remember Jannisaries?).

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 02:10:28 PM
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I think a lot of it is that people in BM find politically correct (regardless of the validity) beliefs subversive, thus they're more likely to attack your statements rather than Varg's.  Nonetheless Varg makes some pretty retarded statements, like comparing races to computer processor architectures.

I suppose it is kind of like Chuck "Tumor" Shuldiner wearing a shirt with cats on it to prove that death metal isn't for abusing animals; nobody in DM feels abusing animals is a good thing, but saying otherwise reeks of weakness and being pathetic (in addition to ruining a funny gag).    Hell, people like Glen Benton of Deicide made a joke of it, to get laughs off the gullible people who were disconnected from reality.

The main problem is that saying "Summoning is and never was connected to NSBM; any thought to the contrary was a misconception" is far more productive than writing a manifesto that reeks of political correctness.  Hell, even saying "Fuck off, nazis" would've been cool too.   I can totally understand wanting to distance yourself from NSBM and having friends who aren't white, but going into how the music was developed by non-whites seems quite a bit defensive and makes you look like you're using servile lip service to the crowd.... especially over a fucking youtube video.

I suppose, to summarize it, the problem is that you felt necessary to distance yourself from society by appealing to rather socially acceptable values, instead of just clarifying your beliefs (or lack thereof in regards to NS).  If that makes sense to you.


i totaly understand what you mean and i was aware about this boring "political correctness" attack before i posted it. but anyway there are enough stupid punks saying "fuck off nazis". you have to understand that i like to write more considerated lines and leave those empty slogans to the punks.

well i did not say it to be cool, i said it because it was necessary for myself. i am really not interested to impress any person by saying "fuck nazis", then i probably would make some hardcore or grindcore music. that would not suit to summoning at all. and i  would neither say anything because it is political correct nor because it is political incorrect. saying things just cause they are political incorrect is for me rather total unmature teenager style.

Iconoclast

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 02:15:01 PM
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i totaly understand what you mean and i was aware about this boring "political correctness" attack before i posted it. but anyway there are enough stupid punks saying "fuck off nazis". you have to understand that i like to write more considerated lines and leave those empty slogans to the punks.


Ah, I didn't mean it literally.

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well i did not say it to be cool, i said it because it was necessary for myself. i am really not interested to impress any person by saying "fuck nazis", then i probably would make some hardcore or grindcore music. that would not suit to summoning at all. and i  would neither say anything because it is political correct nor because it is political incorrect. saying things just cause they are political incorrect is for me rather total unmature teenager style.


What I meant by "cool" would be that it would be okay, I didn't mean it by wanting to improve social standing or anything.

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 02:52:39 PM
And btw talking about shocking and political correctness. why does not anybody try to be political incorrect by spreading Islamic terror ideas. or why is none shocking with communistic messages. i think both are for example for the USA far more shocking nowadays than this boring nazi topic. in USA for example you can make a nazi demonstration on street, and as the freedom of speech seems to be important there they can do it without problems. but imagine anybody in USA making a Islamic demonstration against the USA regime. what you think would be the greater provocation for the government? and as europe always fallows any trends in USA with some years delay this would also provocat european countries much more.

the reason why they don't do it is for me simply because it maybe started as a provocation and a the desire to be incorrect, but turned out to a new lifestyle for most who started with provocation once. and incorrectness is also a relative thing. in the black metal scene it seems to be quite correct to spread nazi stuff. actually i deal more with people from the metal scene than with normal people, so you can see my statements as a kind of political incorrectness towards the black metal scene; just consider those indignation my statements cause in that forum;-)

Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 03:58:43 PM
It's nice to see one of the best current artists in metal posting here :-)

Protector:

Metal isn't completely 'ayran' for sure, but none of us are trying to say that it is. Influence for modern art comes from almost everywhere, due to globalisation. Peoples and cultures have borrowed influences from each other since time immemorial (and not just musically), it is childish to say 'who owns what kind of music'. The only thing I can see what black people have done is slightly changed the way of playing an instrument. They didn't change the direction of art such as in the way many classical composers have. Don't use the overplayed black influence on music as an outlet to show how kosher you are with the moron masses.

All that matters in a musician is the spirit and will to create art. It doesn't really matter what instruments or techniques get in the way. That's why many people here think highly of your music.

By the way, it seems you are trying to excuse Turkish economic immigrants moving en masse to your country and causing ethnocide by saying some food you eat finds its roots in China hundreds of years ago. Why?


Re: Summoning make stand against fascism
April 27, 2007, 04:21:16 PM
Protector, welcome aboard.  

I think most of us here are always glad to see musicians who are willing to come down from the clouds and discuss their music and beliefs, regardless of whether they fall in line with what many of us believe.  

We could spend all year arguing about the provenance of the various instruments or the exact ethnic lineage of the blues and get no closer to the truth.  Scholars have kicked these questions back and forth for decades, but no one really has an answer that is satisfactory: too much has simply been lost in the mists of time.

In any event, the reality is that, whatever the origins of the guitar and other instruments may be, they have been central to European musical culture for centuries, so the use of guitar hardly calls into question the 'Europeaness' (for lack of a better word) of metal.  The blues seem even less relevant, because, in my view, metal emerged as a form distinct from rock precisely because metal moved away from the blues tradition - away from blues-based tonality; away from blues-based structures; away from the party hearty hedonism rock had inherited from the blues (which isn't to say that metalheads don't party, just that hedonism is subordinated to and sublimated within a Will-to-Power warrior ethos that is clearly modelled on a form of European martial idealism).  Instead, metal increasingly adopted the ideals and techniques of the European classical tradition, making epic, structuralist music celebrating a martial idealism that is peculiarly European.

Now, I've certainly never been privy to the inner workings of your creative process, but I have to admit that when I listen to Summoning what I hear (and I have a fairly vast lexicon of musical history to draw on) is a thousand years of Germanic musical culture condensed (if that word can be fairly applied to a band famed for albums consisting of 10+ minute epics) into a new musical mythology celebrating a world that has passed and looking to a world that could be again.  You might just as well try to hold back the wind as try to demand that 'nazis' not like your music.  And, let's be honest, nobody but an idiot is going to assume that Summoning is a National Socialist outfit because they saw a video on YouTube.  Do you really care all that much what morons think?

Just as a curiosity, who would you say your primary influences are?  I hear Burzum, mid-period Bathory, Wagner, medieval/Renaissance polyphony and, on occasion, darkwave or maybe even Dead Can Dance, but it's always possible that what I'm hearing is parallel evolution.