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Feeling

Feeling
June 26, 2007, 10:53:27 PM
This one represents a small struggle for me.

I know that De Mysteriis Dom Satanas is not an excellent album in theoretical terms, nor is it even that far from the heavy metal that inspired it, but I find in this there is something undefinable.

Black people might call it soul, but I call it feeling: how hundreds of details of rhythm, tone and structure (phrase change within song) add up to a coherent whole, like a language unto itself.

The feeling to this album is incomparable. It exists nowhere else except maybe in the music of Ludwig van Beethoven, but without the apocalyptic urgency of distortion and pummeling arhythmic drums.

I cannot say this CD is heavy metal. I cannot say it is rock. It is something else. It aims to be something else. It does not want to join the crowd.

Yet on the other hand, my rational mind tells me that feeling is a logical thing, a summation of those same hundreds of details into a single symbol or expression of truth. When you love a girl, you are finding an equal, a breeding partner, a friend, someone to respect and so idealize.

So feeling might be rational, but not linear in the sense that writing computer programs or solving mathematical problems are. It is more like a geometry in which two or more convergent tendencies can exist as once, an expression not of "a balance" but of the many degrees of that balance.

Either way, incomparable is this feeling, and so this album.

\m/

Re: Feeling
June 28, 2007, 10:41:11 AM
I agree with you. I wasn't impressed initially but gradually I got used to it and one day while  listening to "Life Eternal" I thought - "what an album"

(hehe sorry for the flowery narration)

But yes the "feeling" is what this album is all about. The carefree, misanthropic feeling. The weirdest part is the vocals - horrible but fitting. A madman's ramblings aren't always funny. Not to forget the "lost spirit wandering in the fog" solos and the hellhammerings.

It doesn't make me wanna break stuff or burn churches but it just sticks to my head and I find myself humming along at any given time.


Re: Feeling
July 10, 2007, 01:34:52 PM
Another great topic, unreplied-to because people are afraid someone might call them "fag."

Raise_the_Dead

Re: Feeling
July 10, 2007, 03:15:11 PM
This feeling is even more incomparable when you experience this album (on headphones of course) while walking down a country road alone while the moon is full.

Divus_de_Mortuus

Re: Feeling
July 10, 2007, 03:28:12 PM
The ability to create the feeling that manifests this album was shared by most of the Norwegian participants. A keen understanding of musical nuance enabled bands that on paper are pretty simple, like Darkthrone, Burzum and Mayhem, to create some of the most powerful metal that will ever be seen. IMO, the primary reason Norwegian Black Metal in it's heyday will always tower above the rest of Black Metal.

chb

Re: Feeling
July 10, 2007, 04:24:20 PM
I must admit that I did not feel a lot when I listened to "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" for the first time. Other Norwegian BM Bands were somehow more easily acessible to me. I have grown to like this album but I still prefer the classic albums of Immortal, Burzum, Emperor and Gorgoroth to "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas". Somehow, the feelings these bands evoke (each of them just as incomparable as that of Mayhem) are more "understandable" to me.

Re: Feeling
July 11, 2007, 12:09:26 AM
One album were the "hellhammering" is crucial to the album, but the overall feeling I get from this is very suffocating yet it flows like a river. Very interesting production and bass lines by the way.

Re: Feeling
July 11, 2007, 03:19:47 AM
I wouldn't emphasize "feeling" when discussing any metal at all. Feeling, replicating in the listener an emotional state, I associate with the lesser arts and entertainment, which take advantage of the fact that emotions in humans can be irrational and exist irrespective of the true nature of things.

Metal, au contraire, excels at conveying an understanding of abstract mathematical relationships and patterns that exist simply because they are created and are therefore real. Since music must obey mathematical laws, anything created in a musical framework must exist - there is no such thing as "impossible music". The better music will take advantage of this and explore the boundaries of what is possible. My interest in music comes from its effect of reinforcing my own view of the world through my own experience and by giving me new and more beautiful ways to view it.

Re: Feeling
July 11, 2007, 07:19:24 AM
I'll keep my irrational emotions thank you very much.  FUCK "abstract mathematical relationships."  You kill art by removing objective interpretation.  Note I said "interpretation," not "quality."  

As I've said previously, interpretation and "feeling" must be built on a foundation of understanding at a quantitative level, but that's only the beginning, the "work" inherent in music appreciation.  The fun starts when you banish that foundation to your subconscious and follow your intuition into the world the artists create.

If you don't FEEL music, then you are dead.  Goodbye.  

chb

Re: Feeling
July 11, 2007, 10:03:47 AM
Quote
Feeling, replicating in the listener an emotional state, I associate with the lesser arts and entertainment, which take advantage of the fact that emotions in humans can be irrational and exist irrespective of the true nature of things.


Isn't the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth called "Ode to Joy"? Joy is a feeling. Does this mean that Beethoven's Ninth is entertainment? I don't think so.

One thing that differentiates metal from rock music are the more complex feelings evoked by the music. Everyone can write a song that's simply "sad" but the "sadness" of Burzum is unique and incomparable.

Re: Feeling
July 11, 2007, 07:59:04 PM
Quote
I wouldn't emphasize "feeling" when discussing any metal at all. Feeling, replicating in the listener an emotional state, I associate with the lesser arts and entertainment, which take advantage of the fact that emotions in humans can be irrational and exist irrespective of the true nature of things.


Maybe you're looking for the idea that metal is ordered emotion, not sentiment, which is the contextless rootless emotion common to commercials and pop songs.

It is abstract emotion (wasn't that a label?)


Re: Feeling
July 11, 2007, 09:53:14 PM
Quote

Isn't the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth called "Ode to Joy"? Joy is a feeling. Does this mean that Beethoven's Ninth is entertainment? I don't think so.


Yes, but what does this mean? Only that you might (or might not) feel joy when you listen to it. It doesn't say anything about concrete the music, and this is my problem. Popular forms of music are appreciated only when one submits to the sentiment - that is, if one does not feel emotion, nothing much is left. I would like to believe there is something characteristic to the more serious arts, an appreciable musical statement which remains even when emotion is absent.

Quote
One thing that differentiates metal from rock music are the more complex feelings evoked by the music. Everyone can write a song that's simply "sad" but the "sadness" of Burzum is unique and incomparable.


Nonsense. One can feel sadness, 'unique' or not, in response to anything at all. Whether we associate sadness to rock, Burzum or the sound of a pin dropping is entirely individual, and subjective.

Re: Feeling
July 11, 2007, 10:24:42 PM
I'm still waiting for chb to explain how we can say the sadness of Burzum is more complex and unique than that of rock.

Divus_de_Mortuus

Re: Feeling
July 12, 2007, 03:58:05 AM
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I'm still waiting for chb to explain how we can say the sadness of Burzum is more complex and unique than that of rock.



I wouldn't say it is more "complex", but I would say it is more valid. Rockers are sad because their girlfriends prefer the penis of another man, Burzum is sad because the modern world is garbage and society has utterly destroyed what was once something great and beautiful. We can debate the complexities but one thing is certain; for Hessians, Burzum's sadness has more to "say", and thus is more interesting.

Re: Feeling
July 12, 2007, 04:05:16 AM
Quote


I wouldn't say it is more "complex", but I would say it is more valid. Rockers are sad because their girlfriends prefer the penis of another man, Burzum is sad because the modern world is garbage and society has utterly destroyed what was once something great and beautiful. We can debate the complexities but one thing is certain; for Hessians, Burzum's sadness has more to "say", and thus is more interesting.


All you are doing is finding and attacking a weak part of rock, and its all people ever seem to do around here, not all rock expresses such sentiments.