Detox from mainstream?

[oscar the cat]

I've noticed that many people who get into metal start out really confused over simple things. They do not understand the idea of not being moral, or of worshipping power or destruction, or why you would live a life other than the job/TV that most people endure.

I think a detox period might be necessary, where people don't watch TV or talk to normals for about a week, and then clarity can come. It won't in every case (stupid people, priests, fools) but it is at least possible, where when people's heads are full of TV and the conversation of others it is not going to happen at all.

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

I personally think humans have to have grown to a certain point to be really moved by music (although a child still can of course) and perhaps its better to let them grow rather then this detox idea when they are "born".

[esoteric]

Being "moved" by music is precisely the problem.  People are desensitized by TV and mainstream music to the point where they can only recognize certain tonal patterns and rhythms as relevant emotional or sentimental experience. This is particularly evident with negroid music and the blues scale, and it eventually comes to the point where that is the only important aspect of the music. A detox period would certainly open people up to a greater range of experiences.

[Dionysius]

I've noticed that many people who get into metal start out really confused over simple things. They do not understand the idea of not being moral, or of worshipping power or destruction, or why you would live a life other than the job/TV that most people endure.
 
I think a detox period might be necessary, where people don't watch TV or talk to normals for about a week, and then clarity can come. It won't in every case (stupid people, priests, fools) but it is at least possible, where when people's heads are full of TV and the conversation of others it is not going to happen at all.

Only one week of no television? I think a whole year would be better...

I don't mean to be rude here but wouldn't it be a better idea to get people into metal who are already have the right attitudes and ideas about humanity instead of trying to use metal as some tool to convert people? The people who made the music already had those ideas, shouldn't the listener at least be open to those ideas from the start? I must add that I don't think only a select few can have those ideas, it's just that only a select few are able to fully embrace them and put them to good use (others commit suicide and stuff like that) But if people don't even understand worshiping destruction for instance I don't think hundreds of hours of metal will change them much.

[Beesley]

I think that metal is best enjoyed after a period of Isolation from humanity and modern ideas, I personally find that I enjoy metal more when I've been revising for exams (where I've spent weeks barely leaving the house and emersing myself in Nietzsche, Plato, Hardy and the like) and have barely seen anyone.

However, there are people who understand metal and its ideas very well havin never gone through such a period, they are natuarly able to grasp the almost Hegelian concept of metal after living all their life among the herd.

The other thing that worries me is that the suggestion of a hermit's existence for a period of time turns being into Metal into a quasi-religious movement (which seems to lead to idolatry and other silly things) instead of a deep appreciation of a rather strange, visceral and wonderful artform

[beyond_godlike]

Nobody can ever appreciate good metal without first understanding the ideas behind it. It's impossible and one can not be converted that way. I first got into metal because I realized that my thoughts weren't as rare as I thought and there were others out there who hated the world as much as I did. Eventually my appreciation grew beyond just liking it because the hate, but if I didn't hate the world so much and desired to kill everyone in it so much I would've never started listening to metal. Although metal did help me grow up from these simple thoughts. If you ever want to get people into metal you have to begin with ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? and the like then build up from there. Bands like suffocation require much adjusting of the way one listens to music to appreciate and listening to similar music that is easier to understand helps in the transition.

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

Nobody can ever appreciate good metal without first understanding the ideas behind it. It's impossible and one can not be converted that way. I first got into metal because I realized that my thoughts weren't as rare as I thought and there were others out there who hated the world as much as I did. Eventually my appreciation grew beyond just liking it because the hate, but if I didn't hate the world so much and desired to kill everyone in it so much I would've never started listening to metal. Although metal did help me grow up from these simple thoughts. If you ever want to get people into metal you have to begin with ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? and the like then build up from there. Bands like suffocation require much adjusting of the way one listens to music to appreciate and listening to similar music that is easier to understand helps in the transition.

Just because you cannot appreciate metal without understanding the ideas expressed within it does not make it a reality for anyone other then yourself. And know many who do not really understand why they enjoy music nor do they relate music to any thoughts or ideas beyond the music itself but can still be truly moved when they hear the music that made Barber famous.

[oscar the cat]

Although metal did help me grow up from these simple thoughts. If you ever want to get people into metal you have to begin with ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? and the like then build up from there.

If you start them out with the stupid, they'll expect more stupid. ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? is stupid. Wouldn't you rather start them out with Black Sabbath or Slayer?

[born for banning]

Just because you cannot appreciate metal without understanding the ideas expressed within it does not make it a reality for anyone other then yourself.

Half the time I can't understand what you write, but I think that in this case, I really agree and admire what you're saying here.

Sitting in some lonely room, listening to music and thinking "Wow I really like this" without putting those ideas into motion is for weak people. People without souls.

To have a soul, or balls (or analog thereof for you ladies out there, and I know you're reading... kisses) is to want to act on your dreams. If you find part of your dreams in metal, or in literature, you're a fucking coward for not putting a few hours of your time every week into making them real.

If I were that useless, I'd shoot myself in the face and reload to blast my testicles into paste.

[twistedcon]

If you start them out with the stupid, they'll expect more stupid. ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? is stupid. Wouldn't you rather start them out with Black Sabbath or Slayer?

But don't you think starting out with a band whose frontman, a devoted Christian and god-believer, always whines about how 'god hates us all' is even more stupid?

Tell me, why is ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? stupid?

[chb]

We have to differ between the Slayer of the 80's and the Slayer of today. Old Slayer is legendary and far superior to ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME?.

[twistedcon]

I know what you mean.

But it's not about the present day Slayer and the 80's Slayer. Araya was the frontman then and he is the frontman now. He was a devoted Christian back then and is still now. Doesn't that make Slayer (Yes, even the 80's Slayer)  as a unit a hypocrite?  Why would you wanna listen to a band who don't believe in the message their songs give? I thought you guys (Well, majority of you anyways) hated Cannibal Corpse, Death for reasons similar to that? Or is it just the music that matters?

I don't know if you know of this already or not, but check this out..

http://www.smnnews.com/board/showthread.php?p=2423230

[beyond_godlike]

I started out on Linkin Park. I never truly liked them, but it was the first time I heard a distorted guitar. After that I began searching for other music with a similar sound. After a while I found metal and loved it. The rest is inconsequential. Point is that I started with stupid shit and found the better music through it. I had to start with softer music in order to appreciate the sound. It took me a while to get into death metal because I could not tolerate the blast beats. After a while I somehow adjusted my hearing to like it. You can't just play Suffocation for someone and expect them to like it. You need to work them up. You can teach them the ideals of the music though even though they cant' stand the music.

Just because you cannot appreciate metal without understanding the ideas expressed within it does not make it a reality for anyone other then yourself.

Metal is rebellious and aggressive music. You can not ever enjoy it unless you are rebellious and aggressive. I should've said that you need to believe the ideals not understand them. My mistake.

And know many who do not really understand why they enjoy music nor do they relate music to any thoughts or ideas beyond the music itself but can still be truly moved when they hear the music that made Barber famous.  

People listen to music because it's popular at the moment and they want to belong. They say do not understand but that's the truth.

[born for banning]

People listen to music because it's popular at the moment and they want to belong. They say do not understand but that's the truth.

Not everyone listens to music for the same reason.  Stop trying to make us clones!

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

Metal is rebellious and aggressive music. You can not ever enjoy it unless you are rebellious and aggressive. I should've said that you need to believe the ideals not understand them. My mistake.  

That I defiantly agree with that. Even if one does not understand a notion one can still live by that philosophy (and in fact all people do).