Symbols

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

People often state black metal is dead and I don't mean to start another "black metal is dead" thread but I think this is a half truth.

The problem with many of the imitation black metal bands is they act upon th symbols created from the originals but don't act upon the impulses and ideas that created that message. They take on the external facade without understanding the internal implications. So if bands acted upon the impulses that made black metal again rather then the products of that impulse could black metal "live again".  

[thronelover]

the only thing music requires you to act upon is making sounds.

by doing that some individuals succeed in channeling energy inside of them and others, but creating a doctrine or stigma that relies on material things such as violence is a cheap trick IMO.

yeah, for instance, varg killed this guy, therefore his black metal must be really, really good!

music can be an offspring of culture and ideology, but it isn't reliant on such things, music has an independent existence.

[born for banning]

Sounds are symbols, dude. A really deathlike riff is a symbol for death, or wanting death.

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

music can be an offspring of culture and ideology, but it isn't reliant on such things, music has an independent existence.

How can music not spawn from some ideology, its impossible to make music that does not mean something no matter what it is, this is making an ideology or philosophy into an aural aesthetic. By ideology I don't mean a specific thought on the creator of "I feel like making music to represent nihilism" but rather that music comes from the mind of one to express themselves, and expressing oneself is expressing an ideology one agrees with or accepts (unless of course the music is written for another as can be seen with the commissions composers were given).  

The ideology comes first, the music comes after. Therefore music is spawned from philosophy.

Also in regard to born for banning I did say external facade as to mean not only a visual but aural exterior. So a group may try to sound like Darkthrone rather then trying to do what Darkthrone did, if that makes sense.

[Thamuz]

What's the point of this? I don't quite follow the original post and what it is getting at.

[esoteric]

It demonstrates the fallacy of nihilism as a lasting ideology. Humans will always, by nature, turn to what is easier or more comfortable, in this case using the symbolism of other bands as a base for new music.

But what irony - modern bands making music said to 'represent nihilism' while at the same time demonstrating its failings.

[Dylar]

The problem inherent in cobbling together bits of existing symbolic systems without understanding what they try to represent should be fairly obvious.

Think of Dio lyrics...

[born for banning]

It demonstrates the fallacy of nihilism as a lasting ideology. Humans will always, by nature, turn to what is easier or more comfortable, in this case using the symbolism of other bands as a base for new music.

It sounds like you're trying to justify your own turning toward what is easier.

Not all humans are equal. Most of you are -- equal to overeducated apes with car keys, that is.

14/85

[thronelover]

How can music not spawn from some ideology, its impossible to make music that does not mean something no matter what it is, this is making an ideology or philosophy into an aural aesthetic. By ideology I don't mean a specific thought on the creator of "I feel like making music to represent nihilism" but rather that music comes from the mind of one to express themselves, and expressing oneself is expressing an ideology one agrees with or accepts (unless of course the music is written for another as can be seen with the commissions composers were given).  

The ideology comes first, the music comes after. Therefore music is spawned from philosophy.

Also in regard to born for banning I did say external facade as to mean not only a visual but aural exterior. So a group may try to sound like Darkthrone rather then trying to do what Darkthrone did, if that makes sense.

i think music can represent something very esoteric, and even very often things that are completely abstract.

[K]

Something is esoteric if it is little known. New music of esoteric nature cannot be made in current condition because the medium is to widely known. Black Metal must be forgotten before it can return with any glimmer of meaning, or it needs to be done in an esoteric context(area, nature, something that would take a little more effort to find).

[born for banning]

the only thing music requires you to act upon is making sounds.

Language is sounds, too. This sentence is just sounds, it has no meaning created by shared expectation of symbolic representation, so obviously you can't be offended by it unless it sounds badly.

ps - Nuclear war is just sounds too.

[oscar the cat]

The problem with many of the imitation black metal bands is they act upon th symbols created from the originals but don't act upon the impulses and ideas that created that message.

They do sound like odds and ends thrown together, which makes their "sounds" disorganized, so they don't communicate. The Jing-Jang who said that music is "just sound" is a total fucking moron who does not realize that it is the organization of that sound that makes it communicate, and when it communicates, we can like it - or not.

[Vanguard]

 by: mayhem-to-carnage Posted on: Jul 16th, 2007, 10:32pm

So if bands acted upon the impulses that made black metal again rather then the products of that impulse could black metal "live again".  

I agree with you on the impulse part. Making music is partly impulse and conscious creation. The organization of sounds of which Snoop speaks something that is wired in like a program, but the coding changes over time based on what the musician puts in his ears. The act of making music is many different layers of consciousness interacting.

Posted by: snoopdawg
They do sound like odds and ends thrown together, which makes their "sounds" disorganized

This is what happens when people make music overly-conscious. It happens cause they either don't want to do the work/study involved or they get caught up in technique and process.