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Young adults - solipsists?

Young adults - solipsists?
July 29, 2007, 10:34:12 AM
This culture likes to make products for a wide range of individuals, and so reap profits. The best way to do this obviously is to appeal to the lowest common denominator in function, while making something unique in appearance.

Several great writers and thinkers have classified their youthful years as solipsistic, meaning in the vernacular extreme egocentricity. "I wasn't aware that others existed," said one, and this correlates to my own experience, although being a nihilist I think less in terms of "others" and more in terms of a continuous whole.

Most of my friends were the same way. We were more concerned with what CD we were going to buy/play, that night's party, what we were going to eat and other things... the domain of the ego, the self, and really not that interesting once you've experienced it for a dozen years. I've seen this phenomenon in most of the people who come through this site, and I think it's a convergence of several factors:

1. Massive propaganda to make you selfish to make you a good consumer/voter;

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2. Natural tendency of those inexperienced in life to be self-referential. For most people, awareness of others as independent entities starts in the fourth grade. Sometime around the sophomore year of high school, they also become aware not only of others but of the "perception layer" of others. It's usually only after college (if lucky enough to go) that they become independent of that, and only partially.

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3. We are united here by what most will see as a personal preference, a musical style.

The only solution is to observe the obvious: that music is a conveyance of ideas, and that those ideas define how the music sounds and who likes it. We are here for an idea. At that point, solipsism becomes an excuse and not an action item.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
July 29, 2007, 01:19:31 PM
I read a book recently first describing rock music generally as narcissistic, then deliberately refining it as solipsist - thus the music of eternal youth's worship; an endless exercise in ego and Self.  Our world probably never had this in such ubiquitous, unapologetic presence until it came along.  In the realm of conveyance of ideas, this says that "we" are eternally burdended with this mindset with little chance to escape it; the effects of this mental glut are visible everywhere.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
July 30, 2007, 10:31:04 PM
It's solipsistic, materialistic, self-referential. Life is about your pleasures. Give up on everything else, because that's how you become cool.

Today's kids have a few main agendas:

1. Sex/masturbation
2. Eating/drugs
3. Video games/movies/music
4. Lying to self about future
5. IM, chat, forums
6. Pretending they're unique

It's why they fail at everything they do, even when they succeed. It's like a pale imitation of a collection of other things rammed into a big pile. Maybe in twenty years they'll have it figured out, but I haven't run into many smart ones.


Re: Young adults - solipsists?
July 31, 2007, 12:53:51 AM
I see these tendencies in previous generations, starting with babyboomers, but they seem to get worse and worse as time goes on and the bonds of culture/family become thinner and thinner and the bonds to technology become stronger.  

1. Sex/masturbation
2. Eating/drugs
3. Video games/movies/music
4. Lying to self about future
5. IM, chat, forums
6. Pretending they're unique

Teens have lusted over these things for ages but technology empowers us with more drugs, entertainment, tools for arranging shallow sexual encounters, ect. When kids are raised with culture and healthy values, they can recongnize trash for what it is, even from a young age. When they are raised with trashy values, trash becomes a way of life.


Re: Young adults - solipsists?
July 31, 2007, 02:25:02 AM
Quote
It's solipsistic, materialistic, self-referential. Life is about your pleasures. Give up on everything else, because that's how you become cool.

Today's kids have a few main agendas:

1. Sex/masturbation
2. Eating/drugs
3. Video games/movies/music
4. Lying to self about future
5. IM, chat, forums
6. Pretending they're unique

It's why they fail at everything they do, even when they succeed. It's like a pale imitation of a collection of other things rammed into a big pile. Maybe in twenty years they'll have it figured out, but I haven't run into many smart ones.



Infact i haven't seen most of the masses pretend they're unique, i believe the complete inverse is what is predominant amongst individuals. They freely express their adore for fashion and clothing similar to famous more "successful" people. Even their character becomes identical due to exposure to the same artificial backgrounds requiring no real mentality whatsoever.

Re: Young adults -  solipsists?
August 01, 2007, 07:06:28 PM
While thumbing through my High School yearbook a few months prior, I noticed that 14 separate people used the expression "Everything Happens for a reason" as their senior quote, which put me in a state of gleeful dismay about my High School years. These adolescents observably needed a way to justify their self-righteous indulgence in what they seen as a wonderful and free way of life, enshrouded with alcohol intoxication and other shallow pleasures of the flesh on weekends, while providing for their parents requirements during the workweek, in so that they would be left alone to indulge on weekends, which is synonymous with the state of modern adulthood. So essentially they are acting as a benefactor to only themselves, which they are trained to do, which I understand is a symptom of the idea of solipsism.  

I see that many people attempt to portray themselves as unique by inverting the value of exoteric knowledge and popular indulgences to befit their own agendas at passing themselves off as better or different to nurse the ego, without understanding that these pleasures and knowable things are easily attainable by any able human anywhere without putting forth much effort.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 01, 2007, 11:02:34 PM
RE: "Everything happens for a reason."

I'm not trying to turn this into another needless Death debate, but for the record, this was one of Chuck Schuldiner's favorite maxims; make of that what you will.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 02, 2007, 07:24:33 AM
^
Modern westerners adore these obtuse, nonsensical slogans. "making a difference" "gone to a better place"(ie. dead) "diversity is our strength" "all life is precious" and of course "everything happens for a reason..."
Curiously, the masses collectively pretend to find some manner of meaning in these meaningless phrases - which probably only how emphasizes just how superficial and silly society really has become.
It is not unlike our peculiar obsession with euphamisms. An entire lexicon has grown around the ludicrous quest for universal "sensitivity" or "tolerance" etc.  
It cannot be an accident that the more empty and pointless society becomes, the more the masses employ this language of vacuous piffle.






Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 06, 2007, 01:02:29 AM
I don't see why this thread is picking on young people. Most people are solipsists. That's why they adore things they don't understand. They aren't required to change.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 07, 2007, 01:57:19 PM
Quote
^
Modern westerners adore these obtuse, nonsensical slogans. "making a difference" "gone to a better place"(ie. dead) "diversity is our strength" "all life is precious" and of course "everything happens for a reason..."
Curiously, the masses collectively pretend to find some manner of meaning in these meaningless phrases - which probably only how emphasizes just how superficial and silly society really has become.
It is not unlike our peculiar obsession with euphamisms. An entire lexicon has grown around the ludicrous quest for universal "sensitivity" or "tolerance" etc.  
It cannot be an accident that the more empty and pointless society becomes, the more the masses employ this language of vacuous piffle.



How true that we are always living these euphemistic lives. And it's why we have Death Metal to tell us that that shit's real and that the truth is brutal.

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It's usually only after college (if lucky enough to go) that they become independent of that, and only partially.


College is only about the individual. It's about getting that degree and then going to that luxurous Condo and that high paying office job. Sometimes I get the impression that Colleges only profit from these fools who think that the world is solely in their hands (and they coat it as "our students are getting the best education" and "If you can dream it you can do it"). Parents have alot to do with this, because they are the ones who have to work  their asses off  and are always enforcing the idea of "go to college so that you can make it in life and not become a bum like me" on their kids. These Parents neglect the fact that not everyone goes to college and that with our ever-growing population that chances of even the brightest student getting in are slim. But when the Parent cares for the kid in such a sense, don't they graduate from such solipsism? (no pun intended) When a parent realizes they are what they are, they enforce ways of supposedly making their children better than what they originally were (the antithesis of Solipsism). I find it interesting how Parents react so socially when it comes to their children and, according to what you said about awareness of independent entities starting in fourth grade then ending in college, it suggests how Palindromic people are over the course of their lives. This probably wouldn't apply to the high class parent whom only spoil their kids and use their money to achieve their own goals (who cares about my bratty kids? I just want my car and my spa!). These parents didn't really graduate (I guess there is Pun intended afterall lol).
So what can be concluded? Money is indeed the lowest common denominator.
Signature: Something I didn't sign up for but found inherently true.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 08, 2007, 10:28:05 AM
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So what can be concluded? Money is indeed the lowest common denominator.


Money? Or bad thinking? Money is a representation of the tangible, and that's what bad thinking leads to, bypassing the infinite.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 22, 2007, 11:12:13 PM
The fact that we live in an age where most mainstream outlets - particularly the much ballyhooed electronic forums - cater to, foster and masturbate the solipsistic tendencies of our youth should not be overlooked.  

Consider the popularity of mindless social networks like My Space and Facebook.  I'd dare say that an overwhelming majority of the pages on these sites serve no function other than to wallow in the narcissism and self-reference of the user.  These pages are used wholly to promote one's social standing, and since most of the user's so-called friends are either people he's never met or passing aquaintances added simply to boost totals, its basis is solipsistic.  And not to venture off into pseudo-fascist rhetoric, but the accessibility and availability of forums to voice idle opinions that amount to little more than "look how many friends I've got," not only dilutes the quality of dialogue between young persons,  but introduces a hiterto unparalleled level of bullshit into our global community - this board is a(n) (occasional) shining example.  

While I realize the latter part of that statement may come off as borderline hippie dreck, I genuinely believe that emphasizing the social inexperience and empty personal preference our fine admin spoke of are useful agents to make a young person a better, unflinchingly devoted consumer, and blind to any real knowledge of anything outside his rather limited world of faceless "buddies."  This ties in with Heydrich's point about the emptiness of language.  Though there's nothing inherently new about platitudes and mantras, they've somehow managed to blur into so-called legitimate conversation.  If you've ever seen a Kubrick film - scripts famous for their profound use of empty dialogue - you've seen people who've lost the ability to communicate and have thus been reduced to socializing through the triviality of their actions.  In our reality, the signal to noise ratio among the young has become more disproportionate as the internet has emerged as a powerful means of rearing an already average mind in a deepening pool of dullness; at what point is the selfish young person really encouraged to grow up anymore?

shadowmystic

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 23, 2007, 07:25:15 AM
True or false: The belief that reality exists independant of the self is based on faith.  I say it's true.

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 23, 2007, 12:59:44 PM
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Essentially, our relationships with other people have been replaced by a "more efficient," formalized system.  "[The Third Order of Simulacra is] simulacra of simulation, founded on information, the model, the cybernetic game -- total operationality, hyperreality, aim of total control."  At times I think of my actions in life based on how they will affect my Facebook account in some way, rather than the other way around.


If I'm not misinterpreting your statement - and you are just taking the piss, as I think you are - that efficiency and formalization have come at the expense of substance.  A lexicon composed largely of acronyms to describe exaggerated or often dishonest actions (how many people are actually rolling on the floor laughing?) has become the m.o. on sites like Facebook and My Space.  Scholars have argued that the online community has dispensed with flowery language in the interest of speaking directly and succintly - interestingly, many proponents of hip-hop use the same argument to defend that community's rampant use of horrid grammar and diction.  That said, a glance at a Facebook profile might first appear as cryptic cipher, then cut-to-the-bone socializing, and finally as a bunch of gibberish.  

It's the growing endorsement of this non-communication that would seem to remove the glamour of the solipsistic youth.  Without requiring a fine-toothed comb, it be can be determined that this young person has lapsed into solipisim by default, lacking the skills and language to effectively and fruitfully interact with other people.  There's also something fundamentally selfish about using a nonsensical shorthand to communicate, and expecting that (or not caring if) everyone else gets it.  I don't believe that our young online denizens have adapted to a modern, more efficient system of communication, they've just gravitated to a forum that allows for a bilious and unadulterated exchange of bullshit.  

Re: Young adults - solipsists?
August 23, 2007, 02:09:46 PM
Human interaction is vastly simplified when the social image of the person can be absolutely controlled by themselves, without having to perform in first person confrontation. I see today's youth blindly indulging in this enhanced ease of communication, this "more efficient" form of interaction, removing them further from any virtue and value in reality and prodding them to continue as they gain more nonsensical hallow attention from their peers, temporarily boosting ego and esteem, and thus becoming a cycle of wanting the feeling they get when a response to their proposed self-imagery is completed by others whom opinions they want to impress or alter.

The solipsist idea applies in this situation because others are only viewed as devices to complete ones own want of self-recognition and ego. The "myspace generation" certainly is wonderful.