Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Metal is 100% derived from classical

Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 10, 2007, 11:26:52 PM


Quote
Paganini's technique was outstanding and unusual, but it was his satanic bearing which caused great crowds to attend his concerts. Schwarz states that "It was more than technical wizardry that attracted the masses: there was a demonic quality as well as an enticing poetry in his playing" (Great Masters of the Violin 181). One instance of superb technique being mistaken for supernatural guidance was the "duel" between Lafont, a famous French violinist of the time, and Paganini. Lafont had volunteered to give a joint concert with Paganini; however, people gained the impression that the concert would be a contest. Paganini was the unofficial "winner" of the contest. Schwarz states that Paganini "won" by improvising during the concert by adding octaves, thirds, and sixths (Great Masters of the Violin 172-173). Paganini was always eager to showcase his technique. Sachs states that Paganini, at a concert in Paris in 1832, played his Sonata a movement perpetual at an amazing twelve notes per second (Virtuoso 33). Most people find it difficult to imagine twelve notes in one second. Paganini managed to play twelve notes in the same amount of time it takes for most musicians to read twelve notes. Paganini's talent extended from the mere mechanics of technique to innovations in technique.

Paganini is the father of modern violin technique. One innovation Paganini began is the practice of memorization. Violinists before Paganini always used music during a concert. Paganini, on the other hand, would boldly walk onto the stage, shake back his long black hair, place his violin under his chin, and begin to play without the aid of music. Audiences were astounded. They marveled at the thought of one man memorizing an entire program of music. The current practice of memorization was attributed to Paganini's supernatural abilities.


http://www.brick.net/~jill/music/paganini.html

Hear for yourself:

Niccolo Paganini - 24 Caprices (Naxos)

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 11, 2007, 01:32:26 PM
Funny, the first person who came to mind when I read about the twelve notes per second is the guy who thinks he's Paganini reincarnated - Yngwie Malmsteen. In Malmsteen's case, it would be seen as mere guitar wankery (not that he can play 12 notes per second, but he still tries to cram as many notes per second as he can). What would it be in Paganini's case then?

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 11, 2007, 03:05:08 PM
Quote
What would it be in Paganini's case then?


Listen to the music. It shits all over anything rock, jazz, folk or industrial have ever produced. But it sounds a lot like metal, specifically technical death metal with a lot of melodic doom metal mixed in. It's a trip. Easier listening than most classical because these are short, whimsical pieces (caprices, similar word to capricious and capricorn, think about it).


Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 11, 2007, 03:14:06 PM
The difference is that Paganini uses his incredible technique to create an emotional effect while Yngwie uses his incredible technique without any purpose at all besides showing off how fast and dexterous he is on his instrument.

If you can't tell the difference between these two approaches by simply listening to their music, then you are lost.

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 11, 2007, 05:00:35 PM
While he is obviously more musically literate then most I still find his music tiring, I myself am learning his 24th caprice and I think it lacks the real depth other more "humble" composers have. Even so its easier playing anyone of Bach's inventions it is far more fun then Paganini.

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 12, 2007, 10:24:57 AM
This piece is METAL \m/

Rameau - Tambourin

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 12, 2007, 09:48:42 PM
Quote
Hear for yourself:

Niccolo Paganini - 24 Caprices (Naxos)


I've said this for a few years now, I've harped on about the 24 Caprices in many posts and their relation to metal: infoterror works. :) Virtuosity without being wankery.

I recall playing that CD to friends when I went to Texas.  ;)  (*fellates self*)

Divus_de_Mortuus

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 13, 2007, 02:02:58 AM
Paganini kicked ass, and was certainly metal, but I question the premise of the topic, when honestly, the majority of metalheads don't know who Paganini was nor do they know of his history.

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 13, 2007, 10:24:36 AM
Quote
Paganini kicked ass, and was certainly metal, but I question the premise of the topic, when honestly, the majority of metalheads don't know who Paganini was nor do they know of his history.


True but other classical composers do, I'm sure there are compositions that are 'based on a theme of Paganini'. Not to forget that his techniques may have been passed on without passing on his name; many people may immitate him without knowing it.

As I see it (and as the topic says) Paganini was the first to play metal.  ;)

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 13, 2007, 09:45:47 PM
Quote
Paganini kicked ass, and was certainly metal, but I question the premise of the topic, when honestly, the majority of metalheads don't know who Paganini was nor do they know of his history.


They don't need to. The music is clearly descended from the same thoughts. If he saw life this way, and wanted to make music of this form, and dressed up like a metalhead, it's likely some thoughts were shared.

Art is deliberate. It exists to communicate something. If all European Romantics make the same type of art, it doesn't mean they agreed to do it. They may influence each other, but not necessarily. It may be that they've all hit on this as the best way to express an idea.

That people today don't understand this shows us how powerful mass media is in conditioning brains to unconsciousness...

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 13, 2007, 11:49:17 PM
There's a distinction to be made, however, between direct lineage and parallel evolution of similar ideas.  Early heavy metal shared certain ideas with classical music, but it arrived at them via other influences.  An honest reading would show that direct classical influence begins with Slayer, Possessed and Morbid Angel.

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 14, 2007, 12:12:13 AM
Metal is not 100% derived from classical. Stop patting yourselves on the back by claiming lineage with this art . You insult the traditions of classical and metal alike by doing so.

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 14, 2007, 12:20:45 AM
Quote
Metal is not 100% derived from classical. Stop patting yourselves on the back by claiming lineage with this art . You insult the traditions of classical and metal alike by doing so.


Not to deny what you say, but some words would be useful here.

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 14, 2007, 02:17:06 AM
Well, I for one would argue that there's a degree of underconfidence inherent in tying the significance of metal to 'roots' in classical music.  It's like trying to glom credibility by association.

But Morbid Angel doesn't need to be Mozart to be great music, and it seems to me that the more nuanced analysis in this thread is the more incisive analysis.  The best metal and classical music are excellent because they share a core of eternal values and a structured approach to making abstract music, not because metal is derived from classical music (which, frankly, it largely isn't).

Re: Metal is 100% derived from classical
August 17, 2007, 01:38:51 AM
Quote
Well, I for one would argue that there's a degree of underconfidence inherent in tying the significance of metal to 'roots' in classical music.  


Metal is derived from classical music. The compositional approach is the same. Rock defines the instrumentation, but that has shit-all to do with what makes the music distinctive. If I play Bach on a guitar, it is blues-based, suddenly?

Come on, grow up, open your minds. Celtic Frost admit a fundamental Kraftwerk influence, and all of death metal was influenced by progressive rock bands, who were heavily classically-influenced. Black Sabbath's guitarist played in Jethro Tull. The idea that rock music existed independently of other forms, or was the origin of metal, is the result of illiterate rockers parroting what the music industry has told them.

Ever wonder why serious historians stay out of this issue? Because the delusion layer is so thick.