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Jazz and the essence of metal

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 21, 2007, 05:32:25 PM
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Spontaneousness, simply living the moment. Most of jazz philosophy is similar if not the identical to the beatnick philosophy. If you read some Allen Ginsberg or Jack Kerouac, especially "On The Road", you might catch some of the ideas expressed in jazz music.


Who would want to read Allen Ginsberg or Jack Kerouac? :P

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 21, 2007, 07:31:32 PM
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This is not a quality argument. Individualism is not inherent to each individual.

Jazz expresses spontaneity, huh? You have low fucking standards for your art. Jazz denies structure because it's incompetent at it, but structure is what communicates something unique to each piece.

Metal has it, classical has it, and some electronic music has it. I prefer that to every piece being a variation on the same old never-ending jam.

To the idiot who said that jazz is about feeling: what a pretentious retard you are. All music is about feeling, and has feeling. You're just being a pretentious fucktard so you can feel how different you are. I have news for you: stupidity and self-delusion aren't unique or different. You failed.



b4b: Can you actually name some names that "endlessly jam on the same shit". Jazz is not only about spontaenuity, there is some more structured Jazz (West Coast Jazz, for the most part) and I will repeat once more the suggestion of Dave Brubeck for those who say Jazz has little or no form.
Also on a personal note, your arguments will have more clout if you keep the bashing of individuals (or groups) to a minimum and instead attack the idea/principle. I know you've heard it from other members and probably won't listen, but it's true that you sometimes (while having good ideas) come off as a "pretentious fucktard so you can feel how different you are". Cheers.

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 21, 2007, 08:55:06 PM
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b4b: Can you actually name some names that "endlessly jam on the same shit". Jazz is not only about spontaenuity, there is some more structured Jazz (West Coast Jazz, for the most part) and I will repeat once more the suggestion of Dave Brubeck for those who say Jazz has little or no form.
Also on a personal note, your arguments will have more clout if you keep the bashing of individuals (or groups) to a minimum and instead attack the idea/principle. I know you've heard it from other members and probably won't listen, but it's true that you sometimes (while having good ideas) come off as a "pretentious fucktard so you can feel how different you are". Cheers.


Don't bother with him, Ive told him a million times he is only taking a small picture of jazz and treating it as the whole, and every time he still comes back and says this. I mean asides from very small band lounge jazz I don't know any kind of jazz with much jamming present in it. The vast majority of Jazz music is pop music, I can agree with this, but musically it is very advanced pop music that far exceeds anything metal has ever done.

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 21, 2007, 08:58:54 PM
For those hung up on musicality: wouldn't posting on a musicians' site be more interesting?

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 21, 2007, 09:18:24 PM
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Don't bother with him, Ive told him a million times he is only taking a small picture of jazz and treating it as the whole, and every time he still comes back and says this.  


Maybe that's because it's his opinion, and your argument was unconvincing? Is there some law somewhere that says just because someone says something, I suddenly have to drop what I am thinking and start agreeing with them?

Are you fucking serious?


Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 12:42:02 AM
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Maybe that's because it's his opinion, and your argument was unconvincing? Is there some law somewhere that says just because someone says something, I suddenly have to drop what I am thinking and start agreeing with them?

Are you fucking serious?


i didn't see anywhere in his post the assertions that you are apparently taking to heart most offendedly like a priest being confronted with Varg.

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 01:13:39 AM
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i didn't see


I'm sorry to hear that.

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 01:25:50 AM
An opinion as an idea presented without evidence, as of yet you have not provided any evidence as to jazz being unstructured and purely a spontaneous thing. To be honest your description of jazz sounds a lot more like a description of a Jimi Hendrix styled rock band.

Edrihan presented an argument by giving examples of jazz composers who wrote structured music, and even an example of a style of jazz that is mostly structured.


Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 01:47:04 AM
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Who would want to read Allen Ginsberg or Jack Kerouac? :P


Good point, although I enjoy the way they write. Ginsberg certainly has nothing more to offer than absurd poems to laugh about. But I like Jack Kerouac because his novel, On the road, deals with something our society would not do anymore. Leave everything, get on a trip without directions and write a book in prose afterwards not knowning at all how it will be received. People prefer to stick to their daily job knowning it will increase their social status and add money in their pockets.

I know Born For Banning is about to call me a hippie right here but I am not. If there's one thing I don't like about On the road is how the character doesn't give a fuck about 75% of the things he does. I'd go on such trip. But I wouldn't do as much fucking around. The sociological aspect of the book is what I enjoyed the most. As for its closing statement, one of the many good quotes from the book:

"Bitterness, recriminations, advice, morality, sadness; everything was behind him, and ahead of him was the ragged and ecstatic joy of pure being."

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An opinion as an idea presented without evidence, as of yet you have not provided any evidence as to jazz being unstructured and purely a spontaneous thing. To be honest your description of jazz sounds a lot more like a description of a Jimi Hendrix styled rock band.

Edrihan presented an argument by giving examples of jazz composers who wrote structured music, and even an example of a style of jazz that is mostly structured.



If I talked about Jazz being spontaneous, it was from MY point of view. I enjoy jazz but I am NOT a jazz musician. I agree that classical and metal music have much more intellectual content. Jazz mainly is sensual beauty.
Because I am more intelligent than you are.

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 02:02:54 AM
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An opinion as an idea presented without evidence, as of yet you have not provided any evidence as to jazz being unstructured and purely a spontaneous thing.


You seem to be assuming that I'm unfamiliar with the examples posted.

I am familiar with them, and not impressed. I disagree artistically with jazz, and I've given my reasons, but you and others don't respect them.

And then you turn around, passive aggressively, and accuse me of not answering your arguments.

Only a drunk man (or TV watcher) would not want to scream in frustration at the ignorance of it all. Ah, humanity - fuck you.

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 10:57:29 AM
I'm listening to some Dave Brubek on Youtube. It should be entitled: "Background Music for an Elevator".


Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 07:47:02 PM
"a neurotic, self-obsessed, directionless elevator"

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 09:06:35 PM
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This is not a quality argument. Individualism is not inherent to each individual.

Jazz expresses spontaneity, huh? You have low fucking standards for your art. Jazz denies structure because it's incompetent at it, but structure is what communicates something unique to each piece.

Metal has it, classical has it, and some electronic music has it. I prefer that to every piece being a variation on the same old never-ending jam.

To the idiot who said that jazz is about feeling: what a pretentious retard you are. All music is about feeling, and has feeling. You're just being a pretentious fucktard so you can feel how different you are. I have news for you: stupidity and self-delusion aren't unique or different. You failed.



You make me to remember when I talk with (very) professional orchestra musicians that admire jazz for the passion and interest it requires on each interpretation, because unfortunately, it's usual they get bored  with the
exact same structure of the same old works, played millions of times. Don't get me wrong, I love classical more than jazz, but to define it as a "never-ending jam" simply, makes me doubt honestly about your actual knowing about music, wich I thought firstly it was vast.

About you: it's understable that you try to raise above the anusian crowd, insulting is your mean to.

Isn't bad to insult, it's a waste of time.


Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 11:18:04 PM
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I'm listening to some Dave Brubek on Youtube. It should be entitled: "Background Music for an Elevator".



Dave Brubeck is not of the most challenging artists that's for sure. Maybe you would enjoy John Zorn's Naked City.
Because I am more intelligent than you are.

Re: Jazz and the essence of metal
October 22, 2007, 11:36:34 PM
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Maybe you would enjoy John Zorn's Naked City.


Even fucking worse! If you're gonna listen to jazz, at least pick up some Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Thelonious Monk, Chick Korea and Nils Landgren.