Punk

[Apocalyptic Raves]

Let's face it, metal owes a lot to punk. But it seems like nowadays punk just hurts metal. On the one hand, if it weren't for the speed, aggression, and angst that punk brought to the underground, metal might not have been given the chance to evolve to thrash, speed metal, death metal, grindcore, etc.

On the other hand, punk musicians deny a lot of important things that metal nowadays needs. Few punk musicians will ever care if they master their instruments. Punk rock is a praise of simplicity, a resentment of musical finesse, which is something that metal desperately needs now (NOT to be confused with polished production).

What I think needs to happen is for metal to understand its history, but mostly ignore the modern punk/hardcore/crust/grindcore trends of today.

[Prospero]

Punk is dead since Henry Rollins became a humorist

[Dunkelheit]

Metal just needs another formative era like we saw in the early to mid eighties where genre lines were a bit blurred and the music was MUSIC first and a genre second. A lot of bands these days fall into one of two traps. They either get stuck in the confines of a genre and keep rehashing time tested formulas and ideas, or they try too hard to mix genre's together. Not enough time and effort is taken towards the spirit side of the music these days either. Take a look at early Bathory, musically it took the hardcore punk structures of GBH, put them into larger frameworks, used unconventional harsh vocals, and spoke of darker more romantic fantasies, all while retaining a youthful playfulness. Something like this is needed today, just building off of all the great concepts metal has already accomplished. The main thing is metalheads need to get a bit more serious about actually composing pieces of art instead of trendy riff salads. As with all things, a holistic view of the situation is needed.

In the end the form of the music doesn't matter as much as how it's composed and what it communicates. As far as forging the basic framework of a sound, the current generation is very lucky in that they can look to the past and see what works and what doesn't, and how to use certain techniques to accomplish specific goals. The future of metal is in the hands of the Hessians who know and love this music and need to step up and create more of it without falling into the traps they've seen their predecessors become ensnared by.

As far as punk, it is dead and does not need to be resurrected. It served as a catalyst, and has no future. Really it shouldn't be seen as a genre but as a philosophy and a movement that can be applied to multiple situations. View it as an active nihilist views a state of utter nihilism: a tool. We should be punk, in that we should make use of a DIY ethic. We should be punk in that we should value simplicity. We should be punk in that we should be aggressive and feral. But we should not be what punk has become, a stereotyped fad. We should not be punk as in favor of populist rebellion.

[AttheGates1996]

Might I add that most people today don't even know what punk is. The majority of people think Greenday are punk. Just something I thought about when I first read this topic.

[GreatBlackJoy]

...We should be punk, in that we should make use of a DIY ethic. We should be punk in that we should value simplicity. We should be punk in that we should be aggressive and feral. But we should not be what punk has become, a stereotyped fad. We should not be punk as in favor of populist rebellion.

Agreed in full. The DIY ethic, and the youth-subculture of Adventure & Activity are both things I think 'we' could appropriate in a very positive way. The moralism behind it, however, can go in the garbage.

[Humanicide]

most moralism behind punk doesnt really have any sort of value. some Crust/grindcore bands do have lyrics and messages which could hold value in the real world, though.

myself, i enjoy punk music thoroughly, with the exception of ska and most overmelodic/poppy garbage.

its a good alternative when im not in a metal mood.

[Apocalyptic Raves]

Did punk ideas/morals/values/whatever actually strive for something though? Did the angst and the aggression that punk music brought us actually go anywhere or do anything? Nope.

I will agree there are things we could learn from punks, especially DIY. If metal had a redeemable future, we would have learned both where the punks succeeded and where they failed.

[Humanicide]

actually punk music did give rise to some forms of metal, but aside from that, not much.

on the whole the genre does not really contribute much, but there are bands here and there which have a message and act on it.

Dropdead is a good example, the group has been avidly against animal experimentation and mistreatment since their formation. inside of their cd booklets they put pictures of atrocities caused by scientific experiments and have not at all faltered from their goal of making people aware.

but i think the PUNX who sit around drinking Colt 45 and listening to the Casualties are unfortunately the majority.

[GreatBlackJoy]

I am very familiar with the entire genre your're referring to, Deadite, as well as the messages of their music. There is a lot you're leaving out about their messages. Like the fact that they advocate a global slave morality, promote 'equality' everywhere, support liberal goverments and political parties, physically assault people with nationalistic or otherwise undesirable viewpoints, etc.

It is a thoroughly Judeo-Christian message they're selling. And it sells well, due to the morbid guilt complexes that afflict everyone in our society.

It belongs in the garbage.

[Humanicide]

I am very familiar with the entire genre your're referring to, Deadite, as well as the messages of their music. There is a lot you're leaving out about their messages. Like the fact that they advocate a global slave morality, promote 'equality' everywhere, support liberal goverments and political parties, physically assault people with nationalistic or otherwise undesirable viewpoints, etc.

It is a thoroughly Judeo-Christian message they're selling. And it sells well, due to the morbid guilt complexes that afflict everyone in our society.

It belongs in the garbage.

youre talking about "hardline" kids. most crusties ive met are actually quite docile. the hardline kids are the twats. theyre the ones who beat up people for smoking cigarettes or not liking the same politicians as them.

ive found that most band members i have met are also quite approachable and good natured.

and Judeo-Christian message? unlikely. but, suppose it were. it is conveyed in a form which is closer to the ideal, or original. therefore, it really isnt Judeo-Christian. what a lot of these bands do is attempt to spread awareness. the only bands i have heard of who beat people up are those in the tough guy macho scene, or "brocore" as i like to call it. idiots who cannot comprehend opinions different from theirs. THEY belong in the garbage.

actually, GreatBlackJoy, were you referring to bands such as the Casualties? because i defended Dropdead and their cohorts. please clarify.

[GreatBlackJoy]

I'm talking about crust, anarcho-punk, peace-punk, etc. It's all the same leftist, whining, slave-morality promoting bullshit. I spent some time involved in this crap. Various anarchist activism, and whatnot.

As far as Drop Dead? It's just ultra-liberalism. Last time I saw one of their shows they were ranting about how it was vital for us to vote for John Kerry. Not to mention they fucking suck.

When you say they're "just promoting awareness" you leave something crucial out: awareness of what? Where does that awareness lead? This stuff IS connected to an ideology.

[Humanicide]

I'm talking about crust, anarcho-punk, peace-punk, etc. It's all the same leftist, whining, slave-morality promoting bullshit. I spent some time involved in this crap. Various anarchist activism, and whatnot.

As far as Drop Dead? It's just ultra-liberalism. Last time I saw one of their shows they were ranting about how it was vital for us to vote for John Kerry. Not to mention they fucking suck.

When you say they're "just promoting awareness" you leave something crucial out: awareness of what? Where does that awareness lead? This stuff IS connected to an ideology.

awareness depends on the particular band in question. each band has a different thing they support, or if they have the same message, they support it in a different way.

and where did you see Dropdead? (its all one word by the way). ive been wanting to see them for a while, as theyre a band i really enjoy. i can see how someone would not like them if they are not a fan of grind/punk though.

again on the topic, are you saying that experimenting on animals and the like is a good thing?

be those scenes leftist, uber-liberal, etc, i still enjoy my fair share of it. if i actually cared about most of the messages in music, i wouldnt like most of the music that i enjoy now. i find instruments to be much more important.

[GreatBlackJoy]

I saw them in Los Angeles. They performed 'well' in so far as they successfully reproduced their recorded music in a live format.

I find that 90% of punk and grindcore is poor quality, both in terms of music and message. There are exceptions to this. Amebix, Misfits, Discharge and maybe a few others I can't think of off the top of my head. These bands are notable largely because they both pioneered and transcended their genre.

Something to consider: you may not care about the ideological message of the artists behind the music, but you are receiving messages through the music itself, even if it's abstract and beyond language. What does the music you love communicate to you? How is the music of Dropdead in ESSENCE from the music of Emperor's early work?

To me, 90% of punk and grindcore isn't fundamentally different from emo or any other 'indy' rock in what it communicates. How about you?

[GreatBlackJoy]

"How is the music of Dropdead in ESSENCE from the music of Emperor's early work?"

Should read "different in ESSENCE from".

[chrstphrbnntt]

"How is the music of Dropdead in ESSENCE from the music of Emperor's early work?"

Should read "different in ESSENCE from".

Why not just modify your post?