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Two Genres of Metal

Two Genres of Metal
November 10, 2007, 08:32:39 PM
Regarding something I just posted in another thread, I was thinking about what it would take for new metal artists to revive the genre.  

Looking at the brief history of metal, mostly concerning the snowballing of extreme metal begining in the early 80s, it would seem that expecting the savior of metal to be of the black metal or death metal genres would be very problematic.

Before I go any further, let's just look at what we know.  For the last 12 years metal fans have been looking at new black and death metal releases wondering when the genres would be revived to the power they once had, and it does seem like there is room left to explore.  Unfortunately every year there seems to be less and less reason to look at new releases, as fewer are worth the time.  We have resorted to praising mediocre albums, as stated in the previous thread by someone else, for tiny improvements.

But metal is not a genre made for tiny improvements.  It's a genre that is defined by gigantic and extreme leaps forward made by bands like Slayer, Bathory and Burzum.  The extremity of the difference is part of the art.  If one were to keep going onward with metal, they would need to make an album as different from Deicide's Legion as Legion is from Black Sabbath's Paranoid album.  The spirit of metal is in these strong steps forward.

So because of that I think the new genre of metal would need to be so different that is would suddenly appear that there were only two genres of extreme metal.  One being the old style which is all the metal from before; black, death, grindcore etc. etc., and then the new genre which is so new and powerful that it groups all the old genres as one.

I will state that in my opinion, and many others, metal has been at a stand since Transylvanian Hungar, and all the other decent releases since then are more like art-rock albums that are just done in the form of metal.  Shouldn't metal be more than the form?  Metal has always been just as much about the time it was created as well as the instrumentation.  

Forgive the obviousness of this post.

Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 10, 2007, 10:02:38 PM
this is very true what you've said about the need for great leaps forward between the styles. i think it's only a very select few that will ever change everything overnight with their music, however the bands which follow can still create something worthwhile within the new style.

personally i think darkthrone's attitude to music was a bit derivative (they always said they just wanted to pay tribute hellhammer, bathory, etc) yet on the other hand burzum was a prime example of an artist that had no boundries. i think filosofem was lightyears ahead of itself and everything else that existed as far as innovation and pure abstract creativity. it was more avant-garde sound than 'heavy metal' aswell which is ultimately the best direction for this music to evolve.

Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 11, 2007, 10:09:05 PM
Buckets, I think there is a great deal of truth in what you're saying....

...But to really evolve, at this point, seems to me like it would necessicate a change radical enough to warrant something no longer even being called 'metal'.

So far, it does not appear that this has anywhere occured yet. Accordingly, I listen to the best that metal has ever offered, and simultaneously explore related genres of music that communicate a similar or related spirit: classical, ambient, other forms of electronic, a small amount of neofolk, martial and industrial.

Also, not that you're necessarily falling into this trap, but it's worth mentioning anyway... beware the myth of progress. The truth (which others have pointed out here) is that the best metal is excellent because it taps into a spirit that is beyond time. This is how metal is related to classical; even when it is sometimes hard (and dubious) to link metal to classical in a purely chronological-technical sense, it is linked in that it is a phenomenon of artists tapping into the same ageless, timeless reality... communication of an internal and external 'truth'.

Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 12, 2007, 01:36:14 AM
Quote
So because of that I think the new genre of metal would need to be so different that is would suddenly appear that there were only two genres of extreme metal.  One being the old style which is all the metal from before; black, death, grindcore etc. etc., and then the new genre which is so new and powerful that it groups all the old genres as one.


I think this is true. A few observations.

I'm not sure form defines the music alone. The content defines the form. Singing Black Sabbath lyrics to death metal would sound out of place, like death metal bands covering punk classics usually sound lame.

There would also be parallel development. For example power metal, which is the best music in the world to molest dysentery-ridden (built in lube) young boys to, and death metal coexist in the same time frame. While the new form would be different, would it be all that different? It would still be music, metal music.

Maybe it would sound like Filosofem with the drum rhythm of Streetcleaner and the song structures of Obscura. I could live with that. What would drive that is the even greater complexity of expressing metal ideas in a new age of internet-empowered imitators.

Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 12, 2007, 01:45:57 PM
I think with the peak of extreme metal in the early 1990s, the ideal of metal, along with the music itself was taken right through to its conclusion. Which is one reason why recent releases always fall short in some way. In order to survive i think it must essential "eat" other genres or learn from them at least. Great steps were taken when metal was mixed with punk, and when musicians consciously took influence from classical artists. The next big step may be taken if metal musicians took more than influence from other genres, i'm thinking along the lines of some electronica artists, as guitar is fast becoming outmoded, but this is just my personal opinion.
In a state of permanent Abyss

Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 13, 2007, 02:53:04 AM
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While the new form would be different, would it be all that different? It would still be music, metal music.

Maybe it would sound like Filosofem with the drum rhythm of Streetcleaner and the song structures of Obscura. I could live with that. What would drive that is the even greater complexity of expressing metal ideas in a new age of internet-empowered imitators.


The emergence of the (Uber)Over-metal??



Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 13, 2007, 09:48:59 PM
There will not be big leaps anymore. From blues based to something closer to classical music or ambient (jazz patterns is also present) gaining between those two states even more aggression and rawness and being extremely intensive. This is metal. Probably in its ultimate form. Metal developed its language, now you only need to have something to say. Rest is only a novelty. Metal is absolute now in same manner as classical. Why you won't expect big leaps from classical composers? Because you know that there is area on which they are supreme. They have got their instruments, play on them in traditional way (yeah I know about avantgarde) and can comunicate through them well. You can create something really new if you discover how to use metal instrumentarium in some different way (like tremolo in '80s) which I belive is impossible now. You should rather use known metal techniques, and usage of instruments to create/express. You want metal to learn from electronica which sounds to me like using guitar as a sampler (if it should be something serious on metal field rather than just techno with power chords in background). It would be regress to all that metal acomplished (and what metal is). It would be as annoying as usage of samples of classical in electronic music here and there (sometimes interesting effect but nothing more) rather than whole, original pieces. Metal will be progressing constantly (slight intensity improvements as always and I think that it will develop even longer themes) but without big leaps and it will never develop any other respectable sub genre. Like someone stated everything in music were done at some point in the past, and we should leave it here. Nothing more is really needed if metal got such distinctive and solid voice especially weird hybrids destructive to its essence. From this point its techniques/vocabulary can only degenerate...
Classical<------------------Metal----------------->Ambient

Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 13, 2007, 10:46:49 PM
Quote
I think with the peak of extreme metal in the early 1990s, the ideal of metal, along with the music itself was taken right through to its conclusion.


Yes, and also...

No new style may be needed. What is needed is bands/artists who understand why metal was styled as it was, and can make the corresponding conceptual leaps to produce content of importance.

The metal now isn't written about anything. It has nothing to say except "I want to be in a metal band and I'm angry." The older stuff was all about the beauty of darkness...


Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 15, 2007, 04:42:48 PM
I think for the above reason that born for banning just stated, maybe another sollution is for people to understand metal to find a new genre.  How can anyone talk when the air is full of toxins.  Perhaps neo-classical or neofolk.  I don't know.

Honestly, I think metal isn't absolute.  I hear it's power and know that it can go further.  I do think Burzum's third album is the best of the lot, but when I listen to it, I can't help but think "is it totally impossible to go any further than this?".

I'm probably younger than most people here so that's probably why I have such high hopes.  I guess I shouldn't be too surprised to find out that there is no place left to build or that there is no reason to build on.

Re: Two Genres of Metal
November 30, 2007, 03:16:35 AM
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The descendants of the genetic upper class would be tall, slim, healthy, attractive, intelligent, and creative and a far cry from the "underclass" humans who would have evolved into dim-witted, ugly, squat goblin-like creatures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm


Metal, too.

Underclass: metalcore, nu-metal, Cannibal Corpse, CD-R bands
Upperclass: the classics and anyone who tries to meet that level of art head-on


aimanirrajim

Re: Two Genres of Metal
December 08, 2007, 04:12:01 PM
Quote
...Honestly, I think metal isn't absolute.  I hear it's power and know that it can go further.  I do think Burzum's third album is the best of the lot, but when I listen to it, I can't help but think "is it totally impossible to go any further than this?".


exactly what i think.

i dont think it's very likely for a new metal subgenre of equal worth to black or death metal to emerge, but i know for a FACT that there is still room to create new music that is equal or even better than burzum's hvis lyset... or morbid's blessed are the sick... etc.

...or perhaps something great would emerge from the doom metal camp..?  ;)

Divus_de_Mortuus

Re: Two Genres of Metal
December 12, 2007, 06:50:35 PM
I once thought that too, but it seems ever since Dopethrone, doom metal has trickled out as well.

Re: Two Genres of Metal
December 12, 2007, 09:10:38 PM
Dopethrone? Sure, if you're looking for a slowed down version of ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME?.

Skepticism's discography is flawless.

chrstphrbnntt

Re: Two Genres of Metal
December 12, 2007, 09:50:26 PM
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Dopethrone? Sure, if you're looking for a slowed down version of ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME?.

Skepticism's discography is flawless.


Esoteric are great, too - did you take your username from them?

6/9/08 edit: After a few more listens, Metamorphogenesis seems static and tired as opposed to heavy.

Worship - Last Tape Before Doomsday remains the most excellent doom metal album I've heard.

Re: Two Genres of Metal
December 12, 2007, 09:55:19 PM
I don't mind Esoteric the band, but at times they feel too improvised, the way the lead guitar seems to float randomly over the dirge.