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November 10, 2007, 02:06:21 PM
First off, based on the set of ideals and values that people on this site helped establish, am I wrong in the assumption that we can call certain actions, by their very nature "metal"?

A few examples would be burning down a Church, living in the forest for several months at a time, surviving a zombie apocalypse, etc. etc. etc.

If I'm not wrong in that assumption, is suicide a "metal" thing to do? In case you're wondering, no, I am not contemplating suicide.

If it were in fact a metal thing to do to take your own life, it would, no matter how you look at it, be a somewhat fatalistic decision. It could however be nihilistic in the grandest sense in that one may realize that their own body or mind has contributed nothing for the betterment of the world around it and must self terminate.

What I'm thinking is looking at death the way Per Yngve Ohlin would have. He seemed to look forward to death with profound joy and an admirable lack of apprehension. You can't exactly call this noble, but I think somewhere along the line, Dead realized he had done his purpose in this world and it was time to go.

So, again, for the right reasons, can suicide be a very metal, albeit fatalistic, thing to do?

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 02:11:22 PM
Fatalism is not metal yo.

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 02:16:15 PM
it depends on the circumstances. there are many great people who have suicided and the footprints which they have left this world become immortalised. in my opinion it's better than selling out and/or boozing away the years like many once great musicians have succumbed to.

also in some traditional non-western cultures suicide is regarded with great honour, and rightly so it must take some courage. people forget that, only in indo-european is it seen as being asscoiated with depression or escapism.

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 02:21:26 PM
I dare say that every suicide, ever, has been succumbing to defeat, not reaching a completely victorious state in which no further victory can be achieved.

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 03:03:47 PM
Suicide doesn't seem like defeat to me.  Is life always victory?  It depends on what you are fighting for.  If life isn't something you value, then there is no defeat.  It's not like anyone chose to live afterall, but they were given the power of life.  Maybe they can use that life to achieve other goals.

Suicide may or may not be metal, but it doesn't take much to see that suicide is nihilistic.

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 03:28:14 PM
Nihilistic in the sense that nothing matters or ever will, so why go on being a meat puppet

Or nihilistic in the sense that I must become one with the rest of the universe. I die to join the lifeforce?

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 04:00:11 PM
If you take an action that would result in a lifetime of imprisonment and then instead elect for suicide, than I'd say it goes along with the metal noir. Kill some corporate pigs and maybe plant explosives in a few wal-marts, the options are pretty vast but difficult to escape from after, so suicide then can become a heroic alternative to suffering.

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 07:04:49 PM
I wouldn't say that suicide should always be seen as a fatalistic decision.  In Buddhism there are a few stories of men that committed suicide because they felt that they had accomplished all they could accomplish or had learned all they could learn (don't ask me to quote any specific examples.  I don't have the book, Breaking The Circle, in by dorm room right now, but I would recommend it as it's an interesting read).  

You could argue that such an action is fatalistic, but I would say that it's an example of a man being  content with his life and accomplishments. He realizes he has nothing more to contribute or has nothing more to learn (or is incapable of learning more), and is ready to..."learn" about what happens after death.

Also, I would see no shame in suicide if a person is in a condition where all of their effort is devoted to staying alive.  For example, I'll be damned if I'll live the rest of my life as a quadriplegic or strapped some iron lung.  If someone feels that they are incapable of adding anything more to the human race because they are in a condition like this, then I would argue that they have every right to end their own life. I wouldn't look down on a person for taking such an action.  In fact, it would say the person would be accepting their fate in a more rational an dignified manner, which is definitely a commendable decision.  Being in such a helpless condition would simply mean existing for the sake of existing, which, in my opinion, is not the purpose of life. Sure, you could spend the rest of your life watching tv while accumulating bed sores, but I don't think that would be very productive or enjoyable.

But then again, that's just me.

Re: Suicide
November 10, 2007, 09:13:10 PM
If I'm not wrong in that assumption, is suicide a "metal" thing to do?

Can we categorically define suicide? Everything is situational except ideals themselves. The ideal might be that it's good to live while one can create in a realistic, ideal-driven way, but when one cannot or living is too brutal, is it not time to recycle that life?

Re: Suicide
November 11, 2007, 08:51:39 AM
This idea only that suicide is a metal thing only factors in the act itself, rather then the reasons for the act. As has already been pointed there can be numerous reasons for suicide, escape from a more painful or less dignified fate, insanity and depression are all reasons for suicide. We need to approach each individual case from a stoical point of view and decide from that whether the act was "metal" or not.

Re: Suicide
November 13, 2007, 08:36:43 AM
No, in IE society suicide was in some moments considered as an honest and noble end. We know warriors or generals comitting suicide rather than falling into shame or servitude, or people like politicians and leaders who once used to took responsibility for bad decisions. It became to be seen shameful with the rise of christianity and its moral thinking and with the rise of totally pointless and stupid suicides of bored and/or clueless people at the end of 20th century.
It is just characteristic for our times that I cant find in my memory any suicide of corrupted politician in the West maybe for the last forty years. Times changed.  


Re: Suicide
November 13, 2007, 09:04:47 AM
Kill some corporate pigs and maybe plant explosives in a few wal-marts, the options are pretty vast but difficult to escape from after, so suicide then can become a heroic alternative to suffering.

Your kidding right?! What you really meant to say was it becomes an alternative for a coward and betrayer of one's beliefs to truly standing behind your thoughts, actions and decisions.

If you don't want to suffer then don't take action. After all, we'll all die eventually and your actions will just be in vain.

Re: Suicide
November 13, 2007, 11:22:51 AM
Many of you probably have in minds stories about samurai's and honor in feudal Japan. But today there is high rate of suicides among japan teens and in that case even their society see that as nothing else than form of escapism.

I can understand suicide in case when you became useless on all planes, especially if you despise empty vegetation that most people calls their life.
When you somehow lost something that was sense of your life (I know how stupid and trivial things people chose), or you considered as essence of your life (that should be many things but one is usually dominating over others).


Re: Suicide
November 13, 2007, 01:26:17 PM
While we're on the topic of the practices of the samurai, maybe we should take up Shudo, to strengthen our bonds and create a better world through anal sex.

Re: Suicide
November 14, 2007, 04:31:16 PM
Although I'm not 100% certain that it's a black and white issue, I cannot imagine any admirable suicide which is based on phsychological issues.  The whole "content with your accomplishments" thing is BULLSHIT and I cannot believe people here are espousing that kind of crap.  No human being will reach the end of their rope mentally; we only fool ourselves into thinking we do.  You can always do more.  Unless...

If one's physical dependence on others outweighs what they are able to give back, then I believe it's admirable, or at least honorable to commit suicide.  I refuse to descend more and more into a vegatative state, be showered and dressed by my children or those they hire to take care of me, to lose my ability to read books, to listen to music, and to get enjoyment through vigorous physical activity.  NOT going to happen.