The roots of modern alternative and indie music

[Prospero]

The roots of modern alternative and indie music / the root of all evil

I recently "studied" the whole "alternative"/"post-punk" phenomenon from the 80s. I'm talking about Joy Division, The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smiths, etc. Unfortunately, I did not live during this time but I have come to interesting conclusions.

I do enjoy some of artists from the new scene (Charlotte Gainsbourg, new Sonic Youth, not much more). But more importantly, I have this tendency to go to the core of things. By getting deep into those exploratory artists of 20 and 30 years ago I came to realize something. Nothing in music is new today. I can't hear the Killers on the radio without thinking of New Order or hear Arcade Fire and not think of Talking Heads. However, it is not surprising. What is frustrating is that, in general, the Killers and Arcade Fire (to name only two) make stuff that is barely interesting while Cocteau Twins, Morrissey, Talk Talk, etc. all made stuff that was inventive and obviously finer than most contemporary artists. The new generation will deny that they are outrageous copies of the past and most teenagers will not be interested at all in knowing where this crusty "indie" sound comes from.

A parallel with metal is possible here. Is metal in the same crisis than the so-called "indie" rock and other modern "alternative" mostly-shitty stuff? Would the problem be that people take stuff without questioning themselves? Where does that come from?

I remember discovering jazz music. I wanted to know its origins. I remember discovering alternative music. Like you can see, I dug the shit. I remember discovering classical music. I am still learning about it. I remember discovering metal. I wanted to know EVERYTHING about it.

The more time passes, the more music turns into shit, the more people don't care why, the more shitty it gets... Folks, let me ask you... WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING!? We are losing ourselves. Our culture is becoming meaningless, it is somekind of vicious circle.

Thanks to ANUS and its dedication to "metal days of yore"

[born for banning]

Is metal in the same crisis than the so-called "indie" rock and other modern "alternative" mostly-shitty stuff? "

Every genre is.

First, the genre is not respected and very few are interested. It gets a chance to define itself around a few ideas.

Then it gets popular. Now people come in and imitate the sound, but have no concept of the ideas the artists went through to come to the point of wanting that sound.

So soon it begins to resemble everything else, and the few unique techniques it had are absorbed by mainstream rock, and then it becomes of historical interest only.

Metal's sick. There are now more bands than ever before, and never before have there been so few good bands. It's a lot like art, music and literature on the whole. As soon as you let the crowd in, wham, it becomes the same old shit disguised as something new!exciting!unique!

[Prospero]

As soon as you let the crowd in, wham, it becomes the same old shit disguised as something new!exciting!unique!

How to make good politics (mostly as ANUS sees it) then? Would anarchy be a solution or are we doomed?

[born for banning]

How to make good politics (mostly as ANUS sees it) then? Would anarchy be a solution or are we doomed?

A few thoughts:

1. Don't value popularity over what's right.
2. Get everyone to agree on some basic values.
3. Don't let capitalism replace natural selection.
4. Don't make it a goal to save every life.

It's just a different values system. It could work in our current political system. I like the idea of anarchy, but it needs organization so that parasitic people don't rule it. Anarchy can be as oppressive as fascism. I like benevolent dictators, with an informed wise elders section of the population.

For example, I like the idea of National Socialism, but I wouldn't want it to be uptight like most people would. I don't know if you need to ban stuff, and burn books, as much as you need people focused on doing what's right and not giving the rest a place to exist.

[Relapse]

I am really sick of discussing this same thing over and over again on this forum.  I think thats why I stopped checking it for a while.

I find that this is generally true:
Every genre is going to have a stage in its infancy where it isnt very popular, and all the genius acts are evolving and discovering new directions.  Then they break up, or grow too old, or lose the spotlight, and a bunch of "imitation" bands take over.  The genre reaches a plateau in some peoples eyes at some point down the line.  None of that matters really though.  Let the bands that are doing something different and have something to say do what they have to do, and let the pure mindless imitators do their thing.  Just distinguish between the two and listen to whoever appeals to you.  If there are no bands that are carrying the genre like youd wish, strap on a fucking guitar, get a band together, and quit your bitching.

[Prospero]

Which I did, and I also listen to what is appealing to me, but just can't understand and I therefore try to understand how other people behave.

[born for banning]

I If there are no bands that are carrying the genre like youd wish, strap on a fucking guitar, get a band together, and quit your bitching.

This is why I stopped reading your posts, I think. Over and over you advocate things that have failed in the past.

Open your eyes. Everyone has strapped on a guitar, and none of them understand the values behind the music, so they hash out the same crap that flooded the following genres:

1. Punk
2. Speed metal
3. Death metal
4. Black Metal

It all sounds the same!

Every genre goes through this, but to different degrees. For example, indie produced a lot less of value than black metal or death metal, as did punk and speed metal.

[buckets_of_rain]

Alternative as far as I can tell meant bands in the 80s that were inspired by the Velvet Underground, like the Pixies and Sonic Youth, eventually to be bastardized in the 90s to mean anything in the 90s that sounded like 70s rock and pop.

I like early alternative music and am not ashamed to admit here.  Yet another amazing and ambitious style of music to sprout from punk.

[Mithrandir]

This is why I stopped reading your posts, I think. Over and over you advocate things that have failed in the past.

Open your eyes. Everyone has strapped on a guitar, and none of them understand the values behind the music, so they hash out the same crap that flooded the following genres:

1. Punk
2. Speed metal
3. Death metal
4. Black Metal

It all sounds the same!

Every genre goes through this, but to different degrees. For example, indie produced a lot less of value than black metal or death metal, as did punk and speed metal.

I have often wondered why the ANUS staff doesn't make their own band and release music in the vein they'd like to see out now.

[chrstphrbnntt]

I have often wondered why the ANUS staff doesn't make their own band and release music in the vein they'd like to see out now.

LLD seems to be taking initiative:

http://www.hessian.org/sites/hiarctow/works.html

edit: Correction: other Irish hessians are involved, also.

[kontinual]

I have often wondered why the ANUS staff doesn't make their own band and release music in the vein they'd like to see out now.

I didn't realize it was so easy.

In fact, why don't we all just compose and play whatever music we want to hear?

[NEVR4GETLOL]

I didn't realize it was so easy.

In fact, why don't we all just compose and play whatever music we want to hear?

I plan to. Anything wrong with making music for myself?

[kontinual]

I plan to. Anything wrong with making music for myself?

If it is garbage and you put it out with the pretense of having other people listen to it, therby piling higher and deeper, then yes.  If you mean creating and performing music explicitly for your own amusement, why would you even bring it up?

[detrath]

LLD seems to be taking initiative:

http://www.hessian.org/sites/hiarctow/works.html

Programmed Cell Death is worth listening to. It's a stab in the right direction, I think...

Edit: hi.arc.tow is interesting ambient music as well. Anyone scanning the thread should take a listen, at the least to prove those involved with ANUS are not do-nothings when it comes to music...

[Necrolust]

I can affirm Programmed Cell Death's artistic worth. I am very eager to get my hands on the full-length.