Paganism, Nazism, Satanism

[born for banning]

Sounds to me like a description of the modern society. Too many useless morons.. Where's natural selection when you need it?

All societies die the same way. There's different flavors.

We could bring natural selection back. Ban welfare and deport career criminals. That would eliminate up to a quarter of the population.

[antithetikal]

All societies die the same way. There's different flavors.

We could bring natural selection back. Ban welfare and deport career criminals. That would eliminate up to a quarter of the population.

You really have a problem of anger management. Should we deport you as well? I wonder...

[Mithrandir]

You really have a problem of anger management. Should we deport you as well? I wonder...

Wouldn't that also mean deporting him from his own forum?

[Kryoptodiz]

Paganism has some good ideas, as does Satanism. i could not see myself following either, though.

Nazism is for the foolish, however. what an absurd belief.

Paganism seems like an umbrella-term to me, lumping together all kinds of non-abramic religions. So it's hard to say anything about it in general.

Satanism has its merits, but only within the context of modern society where there's still a christian dominance (although not as strong as it used to be). Without that context it's just some metaphysical philosophy centered around a mythical figure called Shaitaan, or Lucifer, whatever. also hard to say anything in general about it.

Nazism could have been something great: a triumph of eugenics and the transforming of (part of) mankind into something better. Instead, it rapidly became a caricature of that (this already begun before they got into power), when, instead of intelligence/capacity, a fictitious notion of 'race' (fictitious because they never succeeded in establishing a physical-anthropological diagnosing tool to tell an 'aryan' from a 'jew') became the decissive element. And this was just the biggest, but not the only one of its follies.

Btw, it should be noted that the defeat of nazism gave birth to a new world order that progressively attributes many discredited ideas of its own past, to nazism. In a way, nazism has become more and more the absolute adversary of our modern society -  which i.m.h.o. accoujnts for much of its popularity in certain circles. Like all those Russian and eastern-european neo-nazi's... If Hitler had won the war, they (or rather their grandparents) would have been lucky to survive as second-class citizens... Yet, they adopted him as their saint...

The more sociiety is desintegrating, the more the values of equality, tolerance etc. are enforced. And in this secular theology. Nazism, personified by Hitler, has been given the role of the Devil. He's on television on a daily basis - he didn't even get that much airplay in the Third Reich's hey days!

There's an obvious danger in this... If the system will collapse, people might repeat nazism's mistakes...

[Prospero]

There's an obvious danger in this... If the system will collapse, people might repeat nazism's mistakes...

I agree, and this time not only Germany will collapse.

[born for banning]

I agree, and this time not only Germany will collapse.

All industrialized nations are headed for collapse anyway.

It's important to separate National Socialism, as an idea, from the way it was implemented and from the war.

I don't see a better system out there, but National Socialism itself is just a modern re-statement of how the Romans and Greeks lived. I don't think Hitler invented it or should be given credit for doing more than popularizing it, and making it succeed initially.

We should stop calling it Nazism, and call it "common sense." Multiculturalism doesn't work. Raw capitalism and raw socialism are failures. We need a goal of the organic state.

In the same way, we should stop calling it Paganism. Paganism means we worship life itself, and the process of nature, not some god created outside of the world by some guy wearing sandals.

And what is Satanism, or the modern occult, but a restatement of these Hindu/Pagan principles?

We need to move forward and reconstruct. All of society as it is now is dying.

[antithetikal]

All industrialized nations are headed for collapse anyway.

It's important to separate National Socialism, as an idea, from the way it was implemented and from the war.

I don't see a better system out there, but National Socialism itself is just a modern re-statement of how the Romans and Greeks lived. I don't think Hitler invented it or should be given credit for doing more than popularizing it, and making it succeed initially.

We should stop calling it Nazism, and call it "common sense." Multiculturalism doesn't work. Raw capitalism and raw socialism are failures. We need a goal of the organic state.

In the same way, we should stop calling it Paganism. Paganism means we worship life itself, and the process of nature, not some god created outside of the world by some guy wearing sandals.

And what is Satanism, or the modern occult, but a restatement of these Hindu/Pagan principles?

We need to move forward and reconstruct. All of society as it is now is dying.

I agree with that. Multiculturalism is not working,
but merely being one of the causes of the modern society downfall.  Also, in this modern (post-modern?) society all we are doing is merely sustaining the weak ones.
Society is  dying, after becoming "unnatural". Capitalism (as it is nowadays) is the cancer of society due to the lack of economical regulation.
A total failure...

[FIAT]

Which one's the best?

No educated individual would, with any knowledge of the meaning of the term, call themselves a "pagan." "Paganism" does not exist, save on occasion in the mind of the deluded idealist; such a concept is a product of modern misinterpretations of collected fragments of pre-Christian scriptures, the symbolism of which--originally teeming with meaning--is reduced to satisfy simplistic minds' pre-conceived theories about an order of knowledge that they can understand.

Nazism was well intentioned, but its leaders were insufficiently educated.

Satanism is, now, utterly useless at best (cf. Why I am not a Satanist), and potentially dangerous at its worst.

Built upon false principles, they're all ultimately failures. They should, however, serve well to exemplify the "secret" of degeneration. That which is not allied with the immutable center of Truth--or a knowledge of Reality--is subject to successive decline, meaning that all of which is borne of becoming will soon enough die.

[NEVR4GETLOL]

By the way my question was not only to do with their ranking within reality, but also in music.

[dark_defender]

By the way my question was not only to do with their ranking within reality, but also in music.

the same thing applies, in terms of music, all can be good but none should predominate. meaning works best on the subconscious level. burzum for example was all of these things and more on a subconscious level.

[Kryoptodiz]

All industrialized nations are headed for collapse anyway.

Agreed. I still hope we can somehow reverse that trend, but I wouldn't put my money on that.

It's important to separate National Socialism, as an idea, from the way it was implemented and from the war.

I agree, and from the imho absurd extent to which antisemitism was carried out. I can agree to a moderate level of national protectionism, and anti-judaism as a natural consequence of anti-judeochristianism, but the german nazi's busted people who themselves felt no connection at all to their (fully or partly) jewish ancestry, and who no physical anthropologist could have picked out as 'un-aryan'... It would have been just as absurd to proclaim Finnish and Hungarians were non-Aryans (which, linguistically, they aren't). Imho, the believe in  'jewish evilness' was an old christian superstition disguised in pseudo-scientific terms.

The purification of society and the gene pool should have been carried out more rationally.

I don't see a better system out there, but National Socialism itself is just a modern re-statement of how the Romans and Greeks lived. I don't think Hitler invented it or should be given credit for doing more than popularizing it, and making it succeed initially.

The term itself was coined by Anton Drexler, the original founder of the DAP.

I still haven't made up my mind about Hitler's importance... His speeches were mesmerizing indeed. Could anyone else have done those?

On the other hand, the foundations for the whole 'führer'-cult, had already been layed by Guido von List (prophetizing about the coming of "Der Große von Oben", the Great One from Above) and other mystics, and by the gap that remained after the Kaiser had left...

We should stop calling it Nazism, and call it "common sense."

I agree. At ;east, if you talk about a possible future system that will save the West. The historic al system can just be called nazism.

Multiculturalism doesn't work. Raw capitalism and raw socialism are failures. We need a goal of the organic state.

I agree here too. (Sorry for being so boring)

In the same way, we should stop calling it Paganism. Paganism means we worship life itself, and the process of nature, not some god created outside of the world by some guy wearing sandals.

And what is Satanism, or the modern occult, but a restatement of these Hindu/Pagan principles?

We need to move forward and reconstruct. All of society as it is now is dying.

Well, here I disagree to a certain degree... The rotten thing with multiculturalism is, that western countries imported poor sods from development countries and/or got stuck in this civil rights thing from ethnic minorities, and these people, although they complain a lot, actually have a better standard of living than they ever had... So, unfortuantely,their part of society is not dying but thriving... Their standards of living are lower than ours, and  it might be hard to convince them we need to dismantle MC society. On the other hand, it could be argued that we need not bother about them at all. But is that a realistic option?

Capitalism and socialism, the materialist factions, imported their own token supporters - at the expense of the spiritual health of all mankind.

[Kryoptodiz]

Multiculturalism is not working,
but merely being one of the causes of the modern society downfall.  

Maybe not even primarily a cause, but a sympton. Of course, a sympton which, in general,  makes things worse.

[dark_defender]

The purification of society and the gene pool should have been carried out more rationally.

given the times i think it was right thing to do, and if germany had gone on to win the war then there wouldn't be any issue about it. perhaps they (the sandaalwearers) could have been repatriated back to their homeland, if they were willing. it would have been the smarter move at least to promote the national identity of other lesser people. but i doubt this morality ever came into the picture.

[Kryoptodiz]

given the times i think it was right thing to do, and if germany had gone on to win the war then there wouldn't be any issue about it. perhaps they (the sandaalwearers) could have been repatriated back to their homeland, if they were willing. it would have been the smarter move at least to promote the national identity of other lesser people. but i doubt this morality ever came into the picture.

If I'm not mistaken, Walther Darré (author of Neuadel of Blut und Boden and honourable SS member, heading the racial department) was against expansion. His interpretation of "Blut und Boden" didn't allow for Germans to live on other than German soil. He resigned from the SS and other organizations years before the collapse.

Alfred Rosenberg also thought the Slavic people should be treated better than e.g. Himmler would.

Indeed, if they'd won the war, there wouldn't have been a large issue with the racial policies. But I still think it's stupid. Many German Jews were unrecognizable as such and could have contributed. A fairly large number of jewish males even ended up in the Wehrmacht, to escape investigation and consequent persecution. They should have taken another, more universally adaptable scapegoat.

Oswald Spengler, the author of Decline of the West and initial supporter of the nazi's, also felt that the nazi's were too narrowly focusing on Germany, while he felt they should focus more on Europe as a whole. He even wrote a critical pamphlet somewhere shortly after the nazi assumption of power.

'Repatriating' the Jews to either Israel or other territories (a.o. Madagascar and Surinam were suggested) was indeed the intended goal for some years. Eichmann even negotiated with some zionist organisations to further this goal. Arab lobbying (mainly by Arafat's uncle, the Grand-Mufti Hadji Amin al Husseini) prevented this.

[we hope you die]

Nazi Germany was nothing more than the weak seeking protection, the power hungry seeking promotion and Hitler who merely managed to bring such extreme ideas to a larger population. He never actually developed the Nazi ideology far beyond what it was originally. As a result of this Nazism is now the ultimate evil and never given a proper chance in the post war climate; which is a shame, because it could have become something great if given the chance to develope under more stable conditions. It was hindered by trying to please many different areas of the German population, repair the economy and expand; all of which took place far too quickly to avoid the collapse of Germany which inevitably occured.

Satanism, as has been said already, only really works if you are surrounded by christian sheep, and need a source of strength to encourage you to fourge out your own path, beyond this it has little use.

I avoid all forms of spirituality which includes paganism, it may be a pretty little set of pre-christian beliefs, if this is the case then we have moved far beyond such things in the modern world, it has become outmoded. I have always been an atheist, believing in yourself is harder than believing in the spiritual, cheesy as it sounds. It is far more productive as well.