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Our Cultures

Re: Our Cultures
December 21, 2007, 09:13:35 AM
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Ireland invented civilization. beat that :)


Older than ancient Tayacien ??

Dunkelheit

Re: Our Cultures
December 21, 2007, 09:24:27 PM
You can't quite call a society a civilization until urban centers have developed. Until earlier cities are uncovered, Mesopotamia will continue to be held as the earliest site of civilization. I hear there are some promising sites further east, though, in modern day Iran.

One thing to consider: is civilization really a concept worth bragging about? While it has many advantages, there are consequences to go along with it.

Ancient Ireland is very interesting though. Her caste system, which bares great resemblence to the Vedic equivalent, seems to have a lot of merit. Roughly separated into Priests, Warriors, and the Common People. I think those three divisions are good simplifications of the roles of individuals.

Re: Our Cultures
December 22, 2007, 01:55:47 PM
For me, it's actually the contrary; it's my Hessian mindset that influenced my view of my culture. I was born in a French Canadian federalist family in Quebec, where I was raised to be almost without culture and to despise the Quebec nationalistic movement.

It's only when I started to get deeper in metal (especially black metal) that I realised how important culture actually is, and how the multiculturalism I was praising did not make any sense. If not for the ancient Scandinavian cultures, the black metal as we know it would not exist, and that realisation made me understand how sad my knowledge and appreciation of my own culture as a Quebecer actually was.

So over this year, my opinion and my view of the world has changed enormously. I changed (evolved) from a multicultural praising liberal to a nationalist that has a deep respect for all the people that helped to make the Quebec culture so distinctive and so special. It's been quite a year for me.

Re: Our Cultures
December 22, 2007, 03:35:00 PM
Me too, except I'm homegrown American. But when I looked back over the English, German, Scots and Austrian in my heritage, I saw a common theme: Europe is the place for Romantics and idealists who don't lose sight of the grimness of reality.

About the same time life made it clear to me that without culture to guide them, people fall apart in their 20s. Without culture to shape taste, it's just a freakshow of crap. Without values, people turn to what's convenient, and so they destroy themselves, become people in their 30s whose highest achievements in life are a job, a cat, and a wide-screen TV.

They in turn screw up life for people who aren't that lost. It's a vicious cycle that's barely visible, so most people like my parents ignore it, and keep thinking about where they'll retire some day. They're sick of giving a shit. Sadly, so are most people my age.

Re: Our Cultures
December 30, 2007, 11:02:55 PM
Both my father and my mother are Irish.  My father comes from a side of pure Celts, black Irishmen.  My mother, on the other hand, is blonde Irish, her blood flowing partly from the Vikings who had invaded Ireland, hung out for a bit, and left.

To some extent, Catholicism plays a role in my life for the idea of human sacrifice and the birth-death-rebirth cycle found in the earth and in the human soul, as the archetype of all processes.  However, Irish paganism influences my thoughts; I look at life through a lust for challenge and a hunger for humour, poetry, and song.  Norse paganism has touched my life, if ever so minutely, by balancing the Dionysiac Hibernitas within me with a Saturnine Gravitas.

Living in the former American Confederacy, the ideal of the Southern Gentleman has become my model for public behaviour, when I'm around the healthy-minded.

Re: Our Cultures
December 31, 2007, 12:08:05 PM
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Whilst I'm not seriously proposing civilization was spontaneously "invented" by one people, the original atlateans to whom much learning (stargazing, seafaring, spirituality) is attributed were Irish.


There were advanced cave civilizations in nearby Scandinavia, and German forest people at the same time. Do we place more importance on cities, or on culture?

The Irish were among the first to organize themselves and have some sense of ethos to their civilization, as were the ancient Cretans and Mycenaeans (the former being the most likely site of Atlantis).

But clearly three populations waves occurred, the first two of which mixed in Ireland. A Semitic people moved to the North; a European race emerged; sitting out the ice age, a Nordic race appeared. My guess is that the Semites had "civilization" first but it was like Crete, crass to our eyes.

Dunkelheit

Re: Our Cultures
January 01, 2008, 05:49:08 AM
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There were advanced cave civilizations in nearby Scandinavia, and German forest people at the same time. Do we place more importance on cities, or on culture?


Good observation. I was going completely by the anthropological definition of civilization which is characterized by urban centers, heavy stratification and specialization, centralized leadership, currency, writing, etc, etc. What it really comes down to though is that the word civilization gets thrown around to mean all sorts of things. Also once people are aware of its true definition, they make another mistake in assuming civilization is automatically "better" than the more "savage" societal types such as band, tribe, and chiefdom. I think just about any can serve their purpose but really civilization is the hardest to get right.

Re: Our Cultures
January 14, 2008, 03:53:45 PM
I dont know how to reply to this because sadly I am not informed of the Irish background. I am right now into the studies of my own personal background and will try to dig deep down. There really isnt an interest in looking up ancestors in Italy oddly enough.

Re: Our Cultures
January 15, 2008, 11:48:14 PM
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I'm not convinced the Irish are a product of mixing. We do fall between two major migrations, the medic and nordic, but I don't see evidence of the two mixing to produce the irish (and other celtic peoples). There is too much to suggest both a distinctness from both those other migrations and a homogenity of genetic and cultural make up.


Most genetic studies suggest the Irish have ancestors who came out of the middle east, and are basically genetically intact, but years of living in the north and casual celtic admixture has produced the blonde types as well as the darker ones.

Re: Our Cultures
January 18, 2008, 03:03:33 AM
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Most genetic studies of the Irish I've seen deal with the expansion from Iberia into Ireland (circa. 8-6000bc), and remark at the homogenity and continuity of the Irish from that initial and only significant migration onwards.


This is true of the Irish, but not the British, who represent more of the classic Celtic type, which appears to be some form of proto-Nordid or mixed Nordid, Falid, Dinarid blend.

Re: Our Cultures
January 23, 2008, 01:31:13 AM
The Welsh, Cornish and Irish were probably results of the same migration. There may have been indigenous people.

The Celts as a whole seem to be Falid/Nordid mixes with some Dinaric, as said. This points to a mixed middle eastern population with steady infusions of northern and central Europeans.

We all come from very few ancestors. But a lot has happened over these years.

13X

Re: Our Cultures
September 03, 2008, 12:09:37 AM
I am of pure Nigerian blood, originating from the N'mia province. I am nephew of Aroko-Ola Buremoh, the hereditary monarch of the small kingdom of Idera. (NO you cannot have 10% of my fortune.) He drives tour buses in New York.

Some Nigerian music to investigate:

Fela Kuti - Roforofo Fight
King Sunny Adé - Juju Music

And a work of literature:

Chinua Achebe - Things Fall Apart

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.


- Yeats

Re: Our Cultures
September 03, 2008, 01:10:59 AM
The English are by now a well and truely mixed-white people (nordic, lowland germanic, british celtic, gaelic) in most places. Each have their own cultures, though the English are having a crisis of their identity that seems to spread infectiously.

The recent article on Corrupt would refute that claim of English genetics. I scatter of the points of the UK people is not so wide spread. My understanding from that is that they are not quite as mixed as one would expect, despite that we are told otherwise by the media. I'd agree that English culture is a mess and is negatively impacting upon the rest of the British Isles.

I recently bought a book called 'The origins of the British' by Stephen Oppenheimer, I haven't read much of it yet but it has been fascinating so far. Excerpts from the back of the book:

"It [the research] demonstrates that the Anglo-Saxon invasions contributed just a tiny fraction (5%) to the English gene pool."

Fascinating, despite the fact that we think of modern English as Anglo-Saxon.

"Two thirds of the English people reveal an unbroken line of genetic descent from south-western Europeans arriving long before the first farmers."

That corroborates with some of what you said above.

"As for the Celts - the Irish, Scots and Welsh - history has traditionally placed their origins in Iron Age Central Europe. Oppenheimer's genetic synthesis shows the majority to have arrived via the Atlantic coastal route from Ice Age refuges including the Basque country; with the modern languages we call Celtic arriving later."

Interesting but I can't offer any more information to back that up or deny it at present.

"There is indeed a divide between the English and the rest of the British [incl Irish]. But this book reveals the division is many thousands of years older than we ever knew."

Slightly dramatic to help sell the book but it does provide a 'reason' as to why we think England is separate from the rest.