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Suggestions, please.

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 05, 2008, 10:23:43 PM
I totally agree... I think unlearning is more important than learning.  When I was finished with the music program at the university all I could think about was rules, voice leading, triads, it left me stale and unexcited about playing.  The music that I appreciate the most is simple music played with discipline.  If you are young and want to play music, I would say experiment with what you can do without "learning" anything.  See what you come up with organically, it might be better than what you come up with after you "learn" about music.  But if you play and you are not satisfied after a few trials (months) then seek out to learn about music.  It may help you or it may take something magical from you.  Sometimes the best music is made by people who have no idea about theory, they just use their ears.  The thing that I cherish most that I learned from studying theory and performance was how to augment my proverbial shit filter, the thing inside you that decides what is acceptable music.  But this usually relates to things like reading, tone, expression... when playing other's music (Bach, Tarrega, Roncalli).  If you want to create your own...(metal, punk) then screw classical and  baroque theory... just make music with your nervous energy, ears, and angst, these are the things that are valuable in aggressive music.  It doesn't have to sound like Dragonforce or Nile, or any other advanced bands... just experiment, you will be taking a more advanced journey in the end if you stick with it.  Studying music is giving up on yourself, giving in to "good" music, but maybe you will be able to make your mom and grandma happy at Christmas if you go the "learned" route....
I'LL BE THE FIRST ONE AT YOUR FUNERAL
AND I'LL BE THE LAST ONE TO LEAVE!!!!!!!

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 05, 2008, 10:43:13 PM
What you said is part true, part not totally true (not to say false).

We just gave an example of Gorguts : he learned, and still composed something totally ''unclassical'' with Obscura (still have strong classical roots in composition and structure thou.).

Same probably goes for other musician. Maybe time and reflexion does the rest of the job to ''re-get'' your mystical inspiration.

Maybe some people can and some other can't.

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 05, 2008, 11:10:17 PM
Quote
If you want to create your own...(metal, punk) then screw classical and  baroque theory... just make music with your nervous energy, ears, and angst, these are the things that are valuable in aggressive music.  


I don't agree at all.

Learn the theory, then find out what you want to say, and make a way of saying it.

The time for untrained music has passed.


ASBO

“Kurt Cobain was, ladies and gentlemen, a worthless shred of human debris.” - Rush Limbaugh

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 06, 2008, 01:09:50 AM
haha, thanks everyone. I decided to start on guitar again (I had a little bit of experience on it, but not enough to make me a master of theory and the like.)

I really appreciate what you all have told me. Thanks again.

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 20, 2008, 02:03:03 PM
Quote

I don't agree at all.

Learn the theory, then find out what you want to say, and make a way of saying it.

The time for untrained music has passed.




Are you inclining towards classicism? And what about natural music geniuses like Mozart? And  jazz and rock weren't the only improvisatory music. Look at the various impromptus Chopin wrote.
Music should have feel. It should have charisma. It should flow naturally and have a flare to it. It should be passionate.
I think this topic went too far. If anyone reads this, they should go to the various other discussions about art. (If my late post seems suspicious and out of place with what I say, it is because it is simply that: A LATE POST).
Signature: Something I didn't sign up for but found inherently true.

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 24, 2008, 12:56:29 AM
Quote

Are you inclining towards classicism? And what about natural music geniuses like Mozart? And  jazz and rock weren't the only improvisatory music. Look at the various impromptus Chopin wrote.
Music should have feel. It should have charisma. It should flow naturally and have a flare to it. It should be passionate.


I think that theory was not invented. It was derived from the mathematical order of the universe.

For this reason, I think it's important.

I agree about improvisation. After I heard classical players improvising, I never respected jazz fans again, which crushed their pomposity trip that all of them seem to be on.

I am inclined toward classical music. It is the most intense experience in music one can have. I also like metal: it keeps the Indo-European spirit of vir alive better than contemporary classical.
ASBO

“Kurt Cobain was, ladies and gentlemen, a worthless shred of human debris.” - Rush Limbaugh

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 24, 2008, 03:22:02 PM
Theory wasn't derived from the mathematical order of the universe, because there is no mathematical order to the universe, other than what humans ascribe to it. Theory, be it musical or other, is a human concept thought up in order to help us make sense of things, it has no meaning beyond that.
In a state of permanent Abyss

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 24, 2008, 05:22:33 PM
Quote
Theory wasn't derived from the mathematical order of the universe, because there is no mathematical order to the universe, other than what humans ascribe to it. Theory, but it musical or other, is a human concept thought up in order to help us make sense of things, it has no meaning beyond that.


And that, friends, is the essence of nihilism!

Quantitative analyses fall flat when attempting to attribute order to the universe. This is because it marks provability, often contingent upon statistical probability, as a prerequisite for truth. In Reality, our world is a function of possibility, a fact that contradicts the notion that "validity" requires measurable success. Such are the differences between the qualitative (traditional) and quantitative (modern) sciences. However, this does not bar us from undertaking a qualitative understanding of mathematical principles, as exampled by the work of the Pythagoreans, who laid the groundwork for European classical music theory.

It was such qualitative mathematics that enabled the Egyptians to build pyramids parallel to the poles, the Mayans to approximate cosmic events with such precision, among other seemingly "impossible" achievements of peoples fortunate enough to have passed out of existence prior to the Dawn of the New Religion.

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 24, 2008, 05:44:38 PM
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Hello, I'm new here, as I suppose you can tell by my post count. First and foremost, I would like to say thanks. I have been a lurker for a while, and I learned a lot about a genre of music I would have otherwise been semi-clueless about.

Well, I suppose that in order to not look like a complete idiot, I should tell you why I am asking this question.

Allright, so, as of now I am 18. I didn't really develop much love for music. Sure, I listened to the stuff that everyone else listened to, and listened to things for the fun of it, but I never really became intensely emotionally tied to it.

So, after listening to shit like (I am ashamed to say, but Dragonforce) for a while, I became disenchanted with music all together and gave up on it. Nothing ever really evoked any emotion within me, and at that point in time, nothing really agreed with my ideologies.

I then started listening to Black Metal and instantly fell in love with it. (I was really introduced when a Gay Midget Fecal Pr0n (GMFP) band, Wolves in the Throne Room, came through my town.) The romantic ideologies and ability to discuss the worlds problems in a way other that the generic punk "Fuck Bush, bomb the white house etc etc" really appealed to me.

So, I have been listening to it for around 3 or 4 months and have started branching into classical and the like.

Now, here is my question. Although I enjoy the music, I have never really had any education in the ways and structure of music (Nor listened to anything that would provide any experience in dissecting musical structure), and it is something that greatly interests me. Could any of you point me to a resource from which I could learn these things?

I would really appreciate any help you guys throw my way.


Learn but do not limit yourself through indoctrination.
Karl Marx is my co-pilot.

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 24, 2008, 09:12:37 PM
Quote
Theory wasn't derived from the mathematical order of the universe, because there is no mathematical order to the universe, other than what humans ascribe to it.


Let me clear your head of delusional postmodernism.

There is a mathematical order to the universe, and it is observable.

What we call mathematics is how we describe it.

That does not change the fact that its function is what it is, and mathematics is the best way we can describe it, and that it generates reproducible, consistent results.

Postmodernist: you are confusing language with reality!

Post-postmodernist: you are confusing redefining reality based on language with redefining reality based on lack of description.
ASBO

“Kurt Cobain was, ladies and gentlemen, a worthless shred of human debris.” - Rush Limbaugh

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 24, 2008, 10:00:32 PM
No, we're getting at the same thing. I am not trying to discredit maths in any way, for all intents and purposes it might as well be objective. But the universe/reality itself is unkown to us. However this point is impotent all the same as it has no bearing on the here and now, which is that maths works and is consistent.

BUT

Having said this there is no mathematical universe beyond this, from which human theories derive from.

You can continue calling me that word in an attempt to insult or whatever the hell your doing, but it does not help the discussion.
In a state of permanent Abyss

Re: Suggestions, please.
February 24, 2008, 10:04:59 PM
And at no point am i confusing language with reality, language is simply the only tool i have to describe said reality therefore i will use that, but not fall under the illusion that language is ultimately objective in any way.
In a state of permanent Abyss