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Metal: anti-emotion

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 17, 2008, 09:30:11 PM
I think everyone is trying to say the same thing: that metal is anti-sentiment. This is a very different thing from being anti-emotion.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 18, 2008, 05:34:46 AM
The deal is that metal werent supossed to be like rock or pop. The thing with emotions in music is that it makes the listener relate to the feelings ego-wise. Like   people with a lost love are ofcourse easily attracted to songs about having a lost love, and thats making emotions into an industry, like rock music, hail youre pleasure hungering ego ! (Wich infact is realy cynical)

In my opinion metal has emotion, just not human invidiualistic emotions, its not something that attract a person cause he feels it relates only to him. Its more an abstract exspression, sometimes dreamwise or romantised.

I hope im exspressing myself rightously here, basicly for me metal is more about the motion of act than the motion of feeling. But its realy absurd and it should be to try to analyze it this way since its alot of things realy, wich forms a pattern wich is larger than life.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 18, 2008, 12:36:35 PM
Is racism an emotion? If it is then NS-BM is as faggy as emo shit.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 18, 2008, 01:14:57 PM
isn't anger an emotion as well?

...

Dunkelheit

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 18, 2008, 10:38:50 PM
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Is racism an emotion? If it is then NS-BM is as faggy as emo shit.


I think we've already established what we are talking about is "emotionalism" not just emotions. Racism isn't an emotion anyways, it can be motivated by emotion but it's definitely not one.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 20, 2008, 12:19:17 PM
I think of albums that come across as very emotional but not in the same tacky way as the pop music you refer to.

Bathory - Hammerheart
At the Gates - The Red in the Sky is Ors
Burzum - Filosofem
Ildjarn - Strength and Anger (yes Anger is an emotion)

When emotion appears in metal it is not the focus, it only helps to make the point. When it becomes the focus you end up with Opeth.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 20, 2008, 07:49:45 PM
"Anti-Sentiment," yes!  This is more accurate than "anti-emotion."  To me, what "good" metal expresses, above all else, is PASSION.  But is "passion" really an emotion?  I think it is somehow "above the fray" of emotions...

But back to Burzum's various 20 minute long ambient pieces.  Does anybody else think there's something just "desperate" about them?  They just sound desperate to me, and I'm skeptical of desperate people.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 20, 2008, 08:40:07 PM
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"Anti-Sentiment," yes!  This is more accurate than "anti-emotion."  To me, what "good" metal expresses, above all else, is PASSION.  But is "passion" really an emotion?  I think it is somehow "above the fray" of emotions...

But back to Burzum's various 20 minute long ambient pieces.  Does anybody else think there's something just "desperate" about them?  They just sound desperate to me, and I'm skeptical of desperate people.


"Tomhet" is in my opinion the best single piece of music Varg ever produced.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 20, 2008, 09:09:21 PM
Admittedly I am relatively new to BM and Burzum.  Perhaps I need to develop and refine my ears/taste.

shadowmystic

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 20, 2008, 10:40:58 PM
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"Tomhet" is in my opinion the best single piece of music Varg ever produced.


Agreed, the immense beauty of the melody in that song is stunning, never heard anything else like it.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 21, 2008, 10:42:58 AM
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"Anti-Sentiment," yes!  This is more accurate than "anti-emotion."  To me, what "good" metal expresses, above all else, is PASSION.  But is "passion" really an emotion?  I think it is somehow "above the fray" of emotions...

But back to Burzum's various 20 minute long ambient pieces.  Does anybody else think there's something just "desperate" about them?  They just sound desperate to me, and I'm skeptical of desperate people.


They're no desperate, you just need to adjust the way that you listen to it in order to enjoy it. Listenning to Varg's giutar based music requires one set of ears, listenning to the ambient peices requires a different set with a different attitude.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 21, 2008, 11:57:15 PM
Emotionless art dates back to Classical Greek art.  The thought being that those who do not show emotion are wiser for using reason over emotion.  I agree, and I am sure a lot of death metal bands do, too.

Moving music is great, but there is a canyon between shallow emotion and true musical inspiration.  Something about the beauty of the natural cycles of life is moving if you're willing to pay attention.  But I don't care to hear about how your girlfriend dumped you and now you cut yourself and sleep in the fetal position all day.  Just two examples.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 22, 2008, 12:03:05 AM
At some level (the higher one) it becomes difficult to define emotions. There are profound, abstract motivating factors behind the greatest of deeds, and though they may correspond vaguely to some sort of emotional state, it is crude to simply label them as emotion, not to mention misleadingly inaccurate...

Perhaps the reason so many of us are saying the same thing here in so many different ways (suggesting a deficiency in our shared language, perhaps) is that at the higher level, the apparent duality between that which is "emotional" and that which transcends emotionality disappears.

And on Greek art: similar to the metal we are discussing, it's not that it's non-emotional or anti-emotional... It's chiefly that it isn't bound by or overwhelmed by the emotional condition. The Hellenes regarded slavery to emotion as an essentially animalistic condition, yet the proper response is not to DENY emotion.... but to reign it in, and subordinate it to a higher element.

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 23, 2008, 12:29:26 AM
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At some level (the higher one) it becomes difficult to define emotions. There are profound, abstract motivating factors behind the greatest of deeds, and though they may correspond vaguely to some sort of emotional state, it is crude to simply label them as emotion, not to mention misleadingly inaccurate...


Ok, now that is just bullshit. Just because you feel "profound" doesn't mean that your feelings are somehow too good to be called emotions. The argument of this thread is against being overly emotional, sappy, etc. Basically, letting emotion weaken you and weigh against your intelligence. Trying to pretend you don't have emotions is unrealistic, and refusing to call them emotions is just a meaningless semantic quibble that accomplishes nothing.

I agree that the types of art we consider "higher" have something greater to them than transient pop singles, but there must be better arguments than this.

shadowmystic

Re: Metal: anti-emotion
February 23, 2008, 04:06:23 AM
I think he was trying to distinguish between an emotion, eg. sadness, anger.  Or something more abstract that is not as easily defined, like the strange and complex mix of feelings that may be induced by Burzum's music.  The former is easy to pinpoint, and express, hence why they are used in generally pointless music, while the latter cannot be defined accurately and usually require genuine intelligence and inspiration to convey through any artistic medium.