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Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism

Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
July 02, 2005, 12:41:09 AM
 The purpose of the Fascist formula, the ritual discipline, the uniforms, and the whole apparatus, which is at first sight irrational, is to allow mimetic behavior. The carefully thought out symbols (which are proper to every counterrevolutionary movement), the skulls and disguises, the barbaric drum beats, the monotonous repetition of words and gestures, are simply the organized imitation of magic practices. . . .
 --Horkheimer & Adorno, Dialectic of Enlightenment 184-85

Metal, indeed, might be viewed as the epitome of popular music's two most extreme dangers: a dehumanizing, de-individualizing techno-mechanization; and a mystifying, irrationalist "retreat" (however illusory) back to humankind's primordial "rhythmic" origins--to speak diachronically about a tension between myth and reason that Horkheimer and Adorno often deal with in a more synchronic fashion. And yet, with the hegemonic ascendancy of industrial capitalism, the twentieth century seems to represent a new "culture-shock" turn-for-the-worse in Adorno's exposition of his ongoing rational/mythic dialectic. When the rationalist in Adorno must speak of a century cursed by Hitler and Auschwitz, it is only understandable that The Dialectic of Enlightenment has, at these points, a very "dystopian" feel to it (Hohendahl 126), and that Adorno's intellectual angst and pessimism are readily transferred from the jackboot to the jitterbugger, from the martial frenzy of the Fascist collective to the fanaticism of the pop-music audience.

http://www.usd.edu/~tgannon/hm.html

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
July 06, 2005, 12:58:34 AM
As Far as a fascist formula Wouldn't pop vomit be more fascist? All the girls with their blond hair and their same slutty uniforms and the drooling apes waiting to slip them date rape drugs and the music(?) do I even have to go there? That shit terrifies me....Pink hell on earth >:(

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
July 07, 2005, 04:15:53 PM
Same philosopher probably also say that heavy metal band names and song names are fairly belligerent, but I think that before making assumptions like that they should listen to teh music.

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
July 07, 2005, 05:36:18 PM
Without a doubt! (i have a problem with philosophers)They allways seem to talk shit before they even give something a try,because they know it all......right

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
July 07, 2005, 05:55:15 PM
Funny how you're doing exactly the same thing with that post. :)

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
July 07, 2005, 06:28:52 PM
how so?I happen to know quite a few philosophers and arguments allways ensue due to the fact I'd rather read and discern for myself what I like or don't like while if they're favorite author says it's bad they just believe that...Maybe I just meet the wrong people ::)

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
July 23, 2005, 06:18:58 PM
Anyway,what the problem with all this?
Adorno, Marcuse and all the marxist crap from frankfurt allways put things in these ways: either youīre engaged in the revolutionary liberation psyco-social (whatever migth it be) or you are walking blindly through the cultural industry.
this fucking nostalgic approach of pre capitalism epoch, try to make us belive that in that time people was able to realize themselves free from the consumism influence.
but, i donīt see why. there werenīt even religious forbidance,by chance?
Itīs interesting to note that even being a bastard son from industrial culture, the heavy metal perhaps is the music gender most wide open against the enjoyment agenda enforced by the industry. even, when by the time some subgenders of metal music are just incorporated in the system, the original strength (in principal when we talk about extreme metal, like black metal) of these bandas allways was to affront the musical formula fixed by the mass midia.
so, i see the development of metal styles,in it pure musicals forms, (i am not talking about lyrical and ideological feature) as the music that more seek break the industry chains.
we can see it clearly when the mass midia see itself confused how to transform into commodities bands like burzum or graveland.
in a way, the extreme metal, by and large, today is the farther from the global massification youth tribal music.
And, what the problem with the facism, anyhow?
And, why thinkers affiliated to marxism should be taken into consideration?

hail satan!

listening now: Krisiun

   
 

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 03, 2005, 11:57:53 PM
Quote
Adorno, Marcuse and all the marxist crap from frankfurt allways put things in these ways: either youīre engaged in the revolutionary liberation psyco-social (whatever migth it be) or you are walking blindly through the cultural industry.


Isn't all Marxism like that? You're either with us, or against THE PEOPLE, therefore an enemy of the state. I think American conservatives like G.E.W. Bush are retarded, but Marxism is just as dumb.


Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 04, 2005, 09:41:30 AM
Quote

Isn't all Marxism like that? You're either with us, or against THE PEOPLE, therefore an enemy of the state. I think American conservatives like G.E.W. Bush are retarded, but Marxism is just as dumb.



Not to throw the baby out with the bathwater; I'd say das kapital forms the greatest critique of capitalism we have seen.

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 05, 2005, 12:02:18 AM
Actually, admin, I'd be interested to hear your views on Marxism generally. perhaps the other bb is a better place for it, or a PM/email.

I bailed from the far left years ago, but friends who study marx/adorno often have some great insights. I'm not going to touch any social theory myself, but I don't reject their analysis wholesale. what do you think? what informs your rejection?

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 05, 2005, 12:07:10 AM
Quote
Anyway,what the problem with all this?
Adorno, Marcuse and all the marxist crap from frankfurt allways put things in these ways: either youīre engaged in the revolutionary liberation psyco-social (whatever migth it be) or you are walking blindly through the cultural industry.
this fucking nostalgic approach of pre capitalism epoch, try to make us belive that in that time people was able to realize themselves free from the consumism influence.
but, i donīt see why. there werenīt even religious forbidance,by chance?
Itīs interesting to note that even being a bastard son from industrial culture, the heavy metal perhaps is the music gender most wide open against the enjoyment agenda enforced by the industry. even, when by the time some subgenders of metal music are just incorporated in the system, the original strength (in principal when we talk about extreme metal, like black metal) of these bandas allways was to affront the musical formula fixed by the mass midia.
so, i see the development of metal styles,in it pure musicals forms, (i am not talking about lyrical and ideological feature) as the music that more seek break the industry chains.
we can see it clearly when the mass midia see itself confused how to transform into commodities bands like burzum or graveland.
in a way, the extreme metal, by and large, today is the farther from the global massification youth tribal music.    
  


An answer to all of that is simply: No. Metal is no fucking escape at all. It's just knowing the market. Kids are alienated? hey then this noisy angry shit'll keep the dollars flying. they can buy their social medicine from us. Burzum and Graveland are no escape at all. Check out how they sell on ebay, or Mutiilation or Absurd albums. They all fall in to this format. Of course they do, they're made within a society which is the target of our criticism. There is no outside.

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 05, 2005, 07:44:20 AM
well..the author still speaks for metal in some ways
; yet I agree that some critics need  to do some listening jobs before they say something's unworthy~

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 05, 2005, 10:07:01 PM
Quote
Metal, indeed, might be viewed as the epitome of popular music's two most extreme dangers: a dehumanizing, de-individualizing techno-mechanization;


It's de-individualizing? Well that's a new one, since most people don't listen to death metal, or maybe that Philosopher can tell us why that is. Fag

Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 19, 2005, 10:52:41 PM
The problem with fascism is that it's an administrative solution to a more complex problem. We need to do away with the notion of government as organizing our lives, and be far more rigorous about eugenics. The Nazis allowed someone who was 1/8 African or Inuit to live in Germany, and allowed many people who were fundamentally stupid to continue existing in society, ultimately dooming them. They needed to really reinvent society, go back to feudal times and kill all the scumbags and leeches among them by allowing dueling and open combat.

Of course, having sick nations like America and Russia around didn't help that. One capitalist, the other communist, but they were basically the same monster, and that's one that supports the rabble and not the smart few.


Re: Philosopher says heavy metal is fascism
August 21, 2005, 05:31:34 PM
Allowing someone stupid to live in society is going to doom you? Doesn't someone have to drive the garbage truck?

Can you be more specific about how the NSDAP allowing normal Germans to live in a normal Germany was bad?