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Metal for classical listeners

Metal for classical listeners
May 27, 2008, 02:18:12 PM
For classical listeners, try:

At the Gates "The Red in the Sky is Ours" (w/violin, natch)
Deicide "Legion"
Morbid Angel "Blessed Are the Sick"
Demilich "Nespithe"
Burzum "Det Som Engang Var"
Gorguts "Obscura"
Sacramentum "Far Away From the Sun"
Gorgoroth "Antichrist"
Enslaved "Vikinglgr Veldi"

This showed up in a thread elsewhere and I thought it might be fun fodder here.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 27, 2008, 02:30:21 PM
Best metal for progressive listeners:

Burzum - Filosofem
Enslaved - Vikinglr Veldi
Gorguts - Obscura
Pestilence - Spheres
Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse
Morbid Angel - Blessed Are the Sick
Deicide - Legion
Demilich - Nespithe
Asphyx - The Rack

From another thread elsewhere.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 27, 2008, 05:47:40 PM
Those bastards probably will be turned of by aesthetics alone (even if it's not so extreme nowadays) and return to opeth and dream theatre.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 27, 2008, 11:20:55 PM
In my experience, classical listeners are drawn particularly to Meshugah. From what I can discern, the poly-rhythmic layering appeals to an expectancy/ delight in juxtaposed patterns and counterpoint.

I got  a cold reaction when Suffocation and Crimson Massacre were played for them, interestingly.

I will have many opportunities to try these suggestions out at music school next year. Perhaps I will post my findings in the coming months.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 28, 2008, 05:50:44 AM
I skowed my composition teacher at uni a couple of tracks from Obscura.  He actually really liked them and the next week had listened to the whole album.  He picked up on alot of technical detail that I missed including complex rythmic patterns and the actual theoretical side of the harmony which is impossible for me to decipher without going over the sheet music.  It didn't actually come as much of a surprise though because he listens to alot of 20th century classical music from serialism to Penderecki to minimalists, many of whom use similar rythmic, melodic and harmonic features to late era Gorguts.  In fact I suspect that lot of late Gorguts is influenced by Luc Lemay's study of 20th century music.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 29, 2008, 04:45:23 AM
I agree with Moses that the second Viennese school of classical enthusiasts would likely provide a much warmer reception. At best other classical enthusiasts might see metal as insipid art like that of the second Viennese school or at worst angry rock.

It needs to be remembered that classical music has always had divisions in it, from the Brahms against Wagner. To simple versus complex as the Baroque changed into the Classical period. From the Romantic versus the neo-Classical and the first Viennese school school against the second.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 29, 2008, 01:34:34 PM
The spirit of metal is very classical-Romantic with overtones of Brucknerian modern...

It is slowly evolving toward what it was intended to be.

All the pretenders are just getting in the way.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 29, 2008, 09:08:22 PM
So it is often slavishly sentimental and, despite moments of brilliance, ultimately fails as far as reaching out beyond the human perspective goes?  I'd rather think of metal as being capable of reaching a similar type of intellectuality as Bach, romanticism ultimately fails because it focuses far too much on aesthetic and not enough on composition.  Brahms and later Beethoven are exceptions, the Wagnerian school could hardly be considered as such.

Ultimately 20th century classical music, the dissonant and the minimalist has far more in common with metal than older styles of classical much, not just aesthetically, but also because the art they produce exists in similar circumstances, meaning much of the intent is the same.  It's even possible to trace the heritage,

Minimilism ------> Tangerine Dream + Punk = Burzum

I am studying composition at uni at the moment, and I can gurantee you there is a large focus on 20th century music, also it is foolish to assume that Gorguts could have created Obscura without a fairly wide knowledge of this type of music, the similarites are hardly possible to overlook.  

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 30, 2008, 05:25:01 AM
Quote
Brahms and later Beethoven are exceptions, the Wagnerian school could hardly be considered as such.


I was starting to feel I was the only person here who fell into the Brahms side of the conflict.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 30, 2008, 07:45:53 AM
Can we all agree that metal isn't as close to classical as it should be? Modern classical has all the formality and diligence that metal lacks - it knows how to say what it wants to say without appealing to the crowd. True, sometimes it lacks spirit, but the desperation of Gorecki's 3rd Symphony is conveyed far better than the desperation of Burzum. Metal has a strong spirit and a clear goal; now we only need superior ways to set it to music, so why not embrace the 20th century developments and learn from them?

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 30, 2008, 07:59:48 PM
Except that Gorecki's desperation is the fear of an impotent man in the face of modern failure, while Vikernes' is the desperation of a hero seeking to overcome that failure, and so, Burzum is rough-hewn genius and Gorecki's music is just an expertly crafted turd of passive aggression.  Discipline cannot substitute for inspiration, nor a well-made surrender for art.  

Re: Metal for classical listeners
May 31, 2008, 09:20:38 AM
Quote
Except that Gorecki's desperation is the fear of an impotent man in the face of modern failure, while Vikernes' is the desperation of a hero seeking to overcome that failure, and so, Burzum is rough-hewn genius and Gorecki's music is just an expertly crafted turd of passive aggression.  Discipline cannot substitute for inspiration, nor a well-made surrender for art.  


We are in agreement here.  What you call inspiration, I would call intellectual intuition, which is nothing other than a clear insight into the nature of reality as conveyed through a work of art.  When these intuitions are pure they will manifest themselves in a suitable form, as with the works of Burzum.  However the lack of intellectual rigour in metal composition allows for a complete degradation of the medium in a very short space of time.  When the compositional method itself possesses something of an intuition then it is more resistant to inferior influences, and has greater possibility.  If metal could capture the intellectual rigour of classical music it would have a much better chance of escaping its current crisis.  It is not surprising that the only bands to have risen above the crowd since 96 are bands that place a strict emphasis on compositional rigour, Gorguts, Averse Sefira, Crimson Massacre, whereas the original greats of metal created much more spontaneous and as you say 'rough-hewn' works of art.

I will not comment on Gorecki as I have not heard him, except to say that many people here are too eager to equate 20th century art with fatalism.  Sometimes the conveying of 'hopelessness' needs to be taken in its proper context, that of modern society.  I also find it surprising that people here are fond of a band like Raison D'etre whilst critising classical composers who did similar things.

Re: Metal for classical listeners
July 04, 2008, 04:41:50 PM
romanticism ultimately fails because it focuses far too much on aesthetic and not enough on composition.

I wholly disagree.

Pompous asses redefine "composition" to mean games with music theory, but to what end? The best Romantics were a balance of the two, because their goal was not either aesthetic OR composition, but an abstraction: an expression of life leading to the transcendent.

When you think about it, most of the theoretical music is a realm for trivial minds: they have memorized rules, and they have learned to layer variations, and then -- what greatness does their music speak?

Is art an object in itself, or like architecture, a communication of a mode of living?

Re: Metal for classical listeners
July 04, 2008, 06:25:16 PM
Best metal for progressive listeners:

Burzum - Filosofem
Enslaved - Vikinglr Veldi
Gorguts - Obscura
Pestilence - Spheres
Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse
Morbid Angel - Blessed Are the Sick
Deicide - Legion
Demilich - Nespithe
Asphyx - The Rack

From another thread elsewhere.
I rofled HARD at the replies.
this thread http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/2273-fave-heavy-metal-band.html seems to be a big ownage too