Thrash versus Thrash Metal

[Humanicide]

You're missing the point. The idea is to give examples of a distinction of which most people are ignorant, hence the misleading term "Thrash Metal".

I bet if this is posted around other metal boards you'll receive a lot of indignant reactions.

i am not missing any point. i understand ANUS' definition of thrash.

i was merely pointing out other good bands.

[ASBO]

1. There's more evidence that "thrash metal" was employed in reference to the style of punk-influenced metal bands (like some of those mentioned above) and the demographic and behavioral shift occurring at shows in the mid-to-late Eighties (and reasonably so…"thrash" being a common slang term for slam-dancing as well as drumming style) then there is that it was cooked up by magazines for commercial purposes. (Where did the term "speed metal” originate, exactly?)

2.  As a description of a particular scene or style of music, “thrash” was still barely defined by mid-Eighties (and predates Anus favorites like C.O.C and D.R.I.), which is probably why even a traceable, press-created term like “crossover” became roundly accepted at the time.

Thrasher = skateboarder, early 1980s slang

[FIAT]

Thrasher Magazine - January 1981

[GS]

Brian "Pushead" Schroeder, former music editor for THRASHER mag:

http://www.operationphoenixrecords.com/mrrissue22-17SpeedcoreArticle.pdf

Uses "Speedcore" and "thrash metal" interchangeably. Notice that he also refers to Metallica as "black metal," when they were actually "power metal"  

[death metal black metal]

Uses "Speedcore" and "thrash metal" interchangeably. Notice that he also refers to Metallica as "black metal," when they were actually "power metal"  

Not a credible source, then...

[GS]

D.R.I. and Corrosion of Conformity were both well established by 1983/84, when 'thrash' (speed) metal took off, so I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to raise here.

In addition to some of heavier bands like C.o.C  there were releases like the New York Thrash compilation in 1982 with Bad Brains and the Beastie Boys. And the “Thrash Bash” show in 1983, attended by Die Kreuzen. Again, the term was used a little more indiscriminately at the time and originally referred to music appropriate for the increasing violence and slam-dancing at punk shows .

[GS]

Not a credible source, then...

You would harp on that (obviously, before you even read the article). I was being facetious.

[ASBO]

In addition to some of heavier bands like C.o.C  there were releases like the New York Thrash compilation in 1982 with Bad Brains and the Beastie Boys. And the “Thrash Bash” show in 1983, attended by Die Kreuzen. Again, the term was used a little more indiscriminately at the time and originally referred to music appropriate for the increasing violence and slam-dancing at punk shows .

Yeah, 'cause it came from the skateboarders, who at the time were identified with the punk culture of the West Coast.

Your resistance to the obvious is stupid: the term meant skateboarding, then applied to skateboarder music, then came to apply to the musical genre that arose from that -- a hybrid of punk and metal.

Later on, idiot magazines tried to make it mean speed metal, which was always the term the europress used until they got ahold of marketing terms.

You want to support fakeness? Call speed metal thrash, you fucking moron.

[GS]

Yeah, 'cause it came from the skateboarders

No shit, Sherlock. I never once denied any of this. But you only prove my point about how the term came into play, considering your top tier of “thrash” has fuckall to do with other bands understood as being “thrash” in 1982. How bands like Slayer & Metallica (who tagged themselves as POWER METAL) began to be associated with "thrash metal" had to do not just with speed but punk "etiquette." Namely, slam-dancing & stage diving, which was widely referred to as "thrashing" at the time – social conduct which was then carried over to metal shows as the two audiences began to mix.

Later on, idiot magazines tried to make it mean speed metal, which was always the term the europress used until they got ahold of marketing terms.

Was it just “idiot” magazines or "Glossy" mags out to sell more records then? And how long is “later on”?

Here’s a clip from 1984 of Metallica being referred to as “Thrash Metal.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g4eefPf1mo

Above you have Thrashers ex-music editor talking about either "thrash," thrash metal and Speedcore in the context of bands like Slayer from 1985.

Here’s a clip of Tom Araya talking about RiB being the ultimate “thrash metal” record (circa SoH)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfm74emQto&feature=related

The term gets used because it makes sense, a condensed phrasing of “thrash / metal” that developed out of the crossover period and all your petty arguing without a shred of evidence or examples to back up your point makes this even more ridiculous than the campaign to write out Venom as a hugely influential band.

[ASBO]

No, it doesn't make sense -- thrash and speed metal are totally different.

Idiots always misuse terms, even in 1984. But among the smart people, usage was clear.

Some people were actually calling Metallica and Slayer black metal back then too. Should we start doing that also?

The ignorance of people astounds me.

[Humanicide]

No, it doesn't make sense -- thrash and speed metal are totally different.

Idiots always misuse terms, even in 1984. But among the smart people, usage was clear.

Some people were actually calling Metallica and Slayer black metal back then too. Should we start doing that also?

The ignorance of people astounds me.

it was ignorance because subgenres were not as developed as they are today. like that split called "Death Metal" with Helloween, Running Wild, and Hellhammer. only Hellhammer is remotely close to death metal by our standards today.

hindsight is always 20-20.

[Frostbitten]

There were obviously a lot of terms being used back then, most being completely inaccurate (Metallica and Black Metal?). How can we actually claim that "Speed Metal" is more accurate than those terms?

[MorbidInvasion]

Because it is a more accurate term, just not in the way that these guys are applying it. If you can't accept speed metal as a legitimate name for a genre then you can't accept ANYTHING as a legitimate name for a genre.

Basically, speed metal (as well as power metal) was the last metal genre to remain completely without hardcore influence. Thrash metal was just speed metal infused with thrashcore (a derivative of hardcore punk) and yes, the two often overlap, but they are two distinct genres. Death and thrash overlap, black and thrash overlap, black and death overlap, and so on. That doesn't mean everything is speed metal.

[MorbidInvasion]

No offense to anyone, but my biggest surprise is seeing that people assumed these were ordered listings as opposed to collections.

There is zero reason to suspect that from the post alone.

I'd swap Destruction for Testament, gladly, but Testament nailed that classic "speed metal" sound, just as Metallica did -- but Slayer, Destruction and others are more hybrid death metal acts.

Testament is a Master of Puppets rip-off, and Master of Puppets nailed mediocrity and nothing else. It's sub-par thrash metal (or speed metal, if you insist on calling it that) that goes absolutely nowhere. I'm actually nearly inclined to agree with UltraBoris on M-A and his idea that MoP was just Ulrich's accomplishment of his mission: laying waste to Metallica and metal for whatever reason.

[death metal black metal]

Testament is a Master of Puppets rip-off, and Master of Puppets nailed mediocrity and nothing else. It's sub-par thrash metal (or speed metal, if you insist on calling it that) that goes absolutely nowhere.

Except for Orion.

I think MOP was a decision point -- go prog or go metal. They tried prog, couldn't quite figure out the fusion, and so made AJFA and then gave up and became a hard rock band.

I call thrash "thrash" because it is an entirely separate genre.

DRI is fusion music; metal like Metallica is speed metal, parallel to other forms like heavy metal, doom metal, black metal, death metal.

"Thrash metal" implies a hybrid, and the two can't coexist, so we got a grindcore fusion (death metal) instead.