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Are The Doors and Black Sabbath structural

Are The Doors and Black Sabbath structural
June 12, 2008, 06:17:47 AM
OK guys I just want to ask you, do you think that The Doors and Black Sabbath are structural music or not. IMO some Doors songs like lets say, L.A.Woman are very progressive, along with some by BS.

I think the widest definition of music is structured relationships between sounds. You can't have unstructured music but it is possible to describe different structure of types of music. To do that I would need to know more about what you mean by 'structural music'.

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I think the widest definition of music is structured relationships between sounds. You can't have unstructured music but it is possible to describe different structure of types of music. To do that I would need to know more about what you mean by 'structural music'.

maybe something like progressive music :) is this good definition

It depends on the era... Yet I never saw Sabbath as "intentionally" progressive (neither "intentionally" heavy metal). If you look at the Sabotage stuff it's going in all directions - if you look at Master of Reality it sounds like a Slayer album in slow-motion. I would not qualify Black Sabbath as being progressive, but as an heavy blues band who simply enjoyed long songs.

I don't know much about the way the Doors used to write material, but I think you are right. Although Jim Morrisson was a wasted poet slacker, his crew were a bunch of talented musicians obviously aware of what they were doing. I especially admire "the Soft Parade" for its musical creativity.

I always thought of the Doors as a self destructive will placed into the form of a pop rock song.

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I think the widest definition of music is structured relationships between sounds.


He's using the term in the way it gets used on this site. Obviously, everything is structured; even nothingness has structure. He means structural composition.

Regarding the Doors and Black Sabbath: yes, but they're still entrenched in rock. Most of what you hear on Doors records has been cut down from what they originally wanted, but even so, you can see the unconventional song structures and somewhat narrative, protean style of adapting song direction to mood. Black Sabbath wrote a lot of verse-chorus garbage, but, like Slayer, they were fond of introductory riffs to any mood change and adding transitional riffs 2/3s through the song for that "heavy" mood that comes with the sense of change.

Penis.

OK guys I just want to ask you, do you think that The Doors and Black Sabbath are structural music or not.

"Question posts" are usually pointless. In this case, we can find utility in it.

The Doors have some songs which are unquestionably structural, as do Black Sabbath. There is an overall tendency toward structure in their works. However, their most popular works are repetitive-cyclic, because people like boring, forceful novelty.

Black Sabbath may not have been intentionally Progressive but the way in which they constructed several of their songs during the foundational period is heavily influenced by Progressive Rock. The breaking of conventional song structure (verse-chorus, repeat) was already initiated on the first album with the eponymous title track and “Wasp/Behind the Wall of Sleep/Bassically/N.I.B.” albeit the latter was pieced together in a loose, “jam-session” fashion. By Sabotage (if not earlier), interludes became more than merely a well-established part of the repertoire, acting as a counter statement to the precedent (“Don’t Start [Too Late]” vs “Hole in the Sky”). This had of course already been foreshadowed earlier with “War Pigs/Luke’s Wall,” “Wheels of Confusion/The Straightener,” etc. Lengthier epics like “Megalomania” and “The Writ” had progressive tendencies in their development of distinct, separate themes as well though in the case of “The Writ,” how well it’s done is another story. The band I’d say is responsible for the first flowering of Progressive songwriting within Metal.

The Doors were also pivotal in the freeing of Rock structure, “The End” being perhaps the most apparent example there. Tracks like “Crystal Ship” and “End of the Night” shift towards an almost ambient territory while “Light My Fire,” with its elaborate instrumental section in the middle attempted to move away from radio predictability (though to no avail).   

The weird secret truth about the Doors: they were a keyboard based band (listen and you'll see the keyboards lead guitars and drums)

Tony Iommi learned how to "work hard" from Jethro Tull, with whom he was a guitarist for a season

Progressive is in their blood, AND they were trying to style their music after the neoclassical-ripoff soundtracks to horror movies.

OK guys I just want to ask you, do you think that The Doors and Black Sabbath are structural music or not.

"Question posts" are usually pointless. In this case, we can find utility in it.

The Doors have some songs which are unquestionably structural, as do Black Sabbath. There is an overall tendency toward structure in their works. However, their most popular works are repetitive-cyclic, because people like boring, forceful novelty.
IMO all what you have said goes the same for Queen, the band that has written an incredible ammount of poprock and hardrock garbage, while IMO their prog songs(that are usually filled with dark atmosphere) are better than, lets say, King Crimson

IMO all what you have said goes the same for Queen, the band that has written an incredible ammount of poprock and hardrock garbage, while IMO their prog songs(that are usually filled with dark atmosphere) are better than, lets say, King Crimson

King Crimson varies a lot from year to year. Part of it is that they never found a sound, since they were focused on musical experimentation, so much of their stuff is textbook and not for general listening. However, an album like "Red" stretches your definitional categories there.