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Metal history through influential bands

Metal history through influential bands
July 19, 2008, 03:53:56 PM
Who really influenced the development of this genre?

1. Motorhead
2. Judas Priest
2a. Angel Witch
3. Iron Maiden
4. Black Sabbath
4a. King Crimson
4b. Led Zeppelin
5. Mercyful Fate
6. Metallica
7. Slayer
7a. Discharge
8. Morbid Angel
9. Hellhammer/Celtic Frost
10. Bathory
11. Deicide
12. Atheist
13. Darkthrone
14. Immortal
15. Burzum
16. Summoning
17. Graveland

At least as far as style is concerned.
ASBO

“Kurt Cobain was, ladies and gentlemen, a worthless shred of human debris.” - Rush Limbaugh

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 19, 2008, 04:37:45 PM
Who really influenced the development of this genre?

1. Motorhead
2. Judas Priest
2a. Angel Witch
3. Iron Maiden
4. Black Sabbath
4a. King Crimson
4b. Led Zeppelin
5. Mercyful Fate
6. Metallica
7. Slayer
7a. Discharge
8. Morbid Angel
9. Hellhammer/Celtic Frost
10. Bathory
11. Deicide
12. Atheist
13. Darkthrone
14. Immortal
15. Burzum
16. Summoning
17. Graveland

At least as far as style is concerned.

Perhaps not quite that linear, and I'd certainly change some of these (Deicide out, Autopsy in, for instance).  I've been sort of toying with a nodal chart showing the relationships for a while, but it doesn't lend itself to fitting in a forum post, I'll see what I can do later.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 19, 2008, 05:05:13 PM
Were Summoning really that influential? I haven't heard many great bands paying a tribute to their style of composition.

Suffocation/Morpheus Descends/Immolation/Incantation, seem to have a had an important influence on the development of the New York style of death metal, with other great/good bands like Infester or Cryptopsy following their footsteps. That should probably be noted.

There's also a lack of Swedish bands, bands like Nihilist/Dismember/Entombed were probably as influential as a lot of the bands in this list though I'm not certain if quality wise, they fit with the others.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 19, 2008, 05:15:56 PM
Ignoring Venom isn't going to make them go away, my friend.

EDIT: Not to mention the huge contributions of American hardcore punk bands, later "thrash" bands, and the NWOBHM movement as a whole.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 19, 2008, 08:38:28 PM
Quote
Ignoring Venom isn't going to make them go away, my friend.

Although Venom is constantly mentioned by pioneers of metal, I've begun to notice that the context in which they're spoken of rarely seems far removed from other hobbies like KISS, Dungeons and Dragons; and comic books.  With that in mind, Venom probably had more to do with setting a precedent for image and attitude than with developing the actual music.

Aside from Venom, classical music has to be metal's most ambiguous influence.  Some people have made interesting observations and arguments about Metal Group X borrowing from Classical Composer Y, but more times than not it's obvious there has been some retrofitting of ideas for the connection to be completed, or even made in the first place.  I think the majority of metal's most important acts were merely aware of the sheer depth and massiveness of seminal classical pieces, and saw it fit to capture that in their own music.  In other words, they made it into a broad and simple concept to approximate and weren't attempting to recreate or update anything.

Quote
Were Summoning really that influential? I haven't heard many great bands paying a tribute to their style of composition.

The end of any list like this is obviously going to be inconclusive.  If it's going to be about good metal then why not choose a band or two that seem to be headed in an interesting direction, or at least one ripe for expansion? 

Overall this is a pretty good list.  The only glaring omission I see is Suffocation.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 21, 2008, 08:20:53 AM
I think it would be important to include metals final artistic direction before its untimely degeneration into mediocrity. This is namely metals ventures into electronic music. For this we have Beherit.

As has been said before the New York death metal scene is entirely absent from the list as is any Swedish or Finnish death metal. For the later I suggest Demilich, Amorphis and Demigod. I feel that Gorguts should be included as well. Also there is no grindcore present, however this issue is not so pressing because grindcore never went anywhere beyond itself with the exception of Godflesh, although I think Carcass and Repulsion are the bands to choose if grindcore was added.

JJ

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 21, 2008, 08:59:23 AM
Thank you for not adding Hendrix. The only thing worse than a Chuck fanboy is a Jimi fanboy. 

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 21, 2008, 02:11:53 PM
Definitely Carcass for it's influence on Grindcore and Melodic death...

Het Venijn zit in den Staart

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 21, 2008, 03:41:56 PM
As a litte sided note... I was thinking, perhaps would be interesting create a list of bands that were influential in a negative way... And methodically explains the reasons why.
The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 21, 2008, 07:19:28 PM
Quote
I think it would be important to include metals final artistic direction before its untimely degeneration into mediocrity. This is namely metals ventures into electronic music. For this we have Beherit.

For the most part I've found the concept of metal going electronic to be much more satisfying than the end product.  Most metal musicans are clearly out of their element in this style, which I think Tangerine Dream's early output illustrates nicely.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 21, 2008, 09:44:22 PM
As a litte sided note... I was thinking, perhaps would be interesting create a list of bands that were influential in a negative way... And methodically explains the reasons why.

Which would be quite useful and feasible, concerning how people tend to get too butthurt about the Dimebag trolling to get the idea. Then again, now that I'm trying to make a list of "negative" bands...
- Burzum. The Filosofem Template (yup, this stuff gets to be written in caps).
- Emperor. Lots of overblown theatricality covered in synth syrup (well, from some point). "Symphonic black metal".
- Satyricon. Okay, this is obvious. Is it just me, or does most BM nowadays (not excluding the Franco-Swedish dissonant melodic orthodox Satanist scene) try to sound like these guys from Rebel Extravaganza onward with a little pinch of Thorns?
- At the Gates. I've seen them credited as creators of Gothenburg all over the internets.
It's a matter of deciding whether to write about good stuff that degenerated or the stuff that was crap to start with. As in "Suffocation or Cannibal Corpse".

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 21, 2008, 10:34:02 PM
Also, in a non musical way i would say that immortal had an incredibly negative impact on the overall image of black metal. For people looking into the scene from the outside it makes it into one big joke, and for those that actually already love the music it makes it harder to take seriously. If it is a joke, then they've pulled it off very well.
In a state of permanent Abyss

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 22, 2008, 12:23:44 AM
As a litte sided note... I was thinking, perhaps would be interesting create a list of bands that were influential in a negative way... And methodically explains the reasons why.


We don't need another thread to bitch about the losers.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 22, 2008, 04:51:55 AM
You wish that your list could be reflective of the evolution of metal, but today's metal is made of Helmet riffs and Motley Crue-level lyrics (resulting in something similar to Celtic Frost's "Cold Lake"). Anyhow, if we're solely talking about northern black metal acts, too far unknown for the masses, but still alive today you may be right.
Because I am more intelligent than you are.

Re: Metal history through influential bands
July 22, 2008, 06:19:53 AM
Does anything from this list lead you to believe the topic is at all concerned with metal that doesn't matter?  I can appreciate your skepticism to a certain degree, but the whole "metal these days sucks so anything tied to it also does" attitude is stupid and directionless.