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What is Beneficial to humanity?

What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 08, 2008, 12:50:37 AM
tell me your dedication in detail of how mankind's main crisis should be fixed.

state an answer for each word in a couple of paragraphs.

1. population and ethnicities

2. philosophy and religion

3. education

4. laws and government

5. music (and entertainment)

6. survival and reproduction

7. how communties are set up in order to function properly

8. economy

9. technology

10. place anything that you think should be here and explain why and what


Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 08, 2008, 03:43:08 AM
Humanity led itself increasingly astray over time from chief competitor among other competing and evolving lifeforms and toward total domination and increasing degrees of self-awareness. The latter part, it seems, is akin to the biblical partaking of the forbidden fruit. The result is that modern man consciously positions himself and self-image at the center of the universe. Since the universe does not revolve around mankind's existence, anthrocentricism is a type of self-deception we moderns affirm with one another and pass along to the next generation. Nonetheless, our societies today are founded with a self-deceptive, anthrocentric, me-first orientation which when put to the test, fails to square with objective reality as it really exists. With the preceding concept in mind, your ten points could better be answered.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 08, 2008, 09:04:22 AM
Man built a world around the "shadow" he saw on "the cave wall" (as in Plato's allegory), instead of living within the world as it lies in reality.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 08, 2008, 02:38:11 PM
Yes Viridovix, I did have that in mind. I was asking on what should be done to fix and move on from our selfish and crude lifestyles to a more better and reliable working civillization.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 09, 2008, 10:21:05 PM
Maybe you should tell us why you think there is a "crisis" and why you want it fixed before we waste the time answering the question in the first place.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 10, 2008, 09:36:10 AM
hum...... what is wrong with mankind? or am I wrong?

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 10, 2008, 03:12:55 PM
What's wrong has been explained. Your ten points are an attempt to look at the side effects. They are not ten empty labels for the cause of what's wrong. I don't think side effect reform is the best or the only cure available.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 10, 2008, 04:19:48 PM
His ten points are questions for solutions. I'll have a (very brief) shot at it.

1. The only benefit of overpopulation and mass blind immigration is to increase our standing in the military and economic contest between rivalling nations. However, with it we acquire environmental and social decay, leaving us prime for the conquest by rivals anyway. We need to reduce our population and to give different ethnicities a chance to attain autonomy and agency (i.e., self-determination).

2. I don't see much wrong with philosophy except for dogmatic quarrels akin to Left/Right politics in those studying consciousness. In fact, I'm a big fan of the postmodern philosophers who through discursive analysis, deconstruction and post-structural analysis, have pulled away from the self as God of reality and looked to holistic constructions of meaning (intersubjectivity > subjectivity). Religion is saturated with new age hippies and individualism. In the West, the first step we could take is to convert Christians to Gnosticism.

3. Romanticism of equality has created a "ceiling effect" in education. We need to strip this ridiculous notion of equality and relativism and restore pride and elitism.

4. To much of a focus on abstract individualism made to look collective (human rights) and not on what is beneficial for the society. We are not equal, and are therefore not equally valuable. Society needs to decide whether it has values or is an anarchistic, relativistic wasteland.

5. Music's problem is (and always has been) the invasion of populism. Solution: as with most things, learn from the past, but move forward almost unconsciously. The best artistic works in history are produced with little rumination over what is being crafted. The unconscious has an idea which the consciousness realises in the creative process.
Entertainment's problem is intrinsic; nothing is gained from the experience as it is just entertaining. Entertainment needs to realise that it is not art, and why.

6. I'm not sure what you mean by survival, but this is my take. We have lost our survival instinct; to assert ourselves within an environment we need to adapt to it. If our methods and our ideas are not sustainable, then our society will collapse. Our reproductive methods have lost significance. Where we once believed that we were together "til death do us part" and in hard work because the marriage is all we have, we now believe in "freedom" and divorce because it's easier to give up and start another franchise elsewhere. Needs to be more of a focus on long-term effects, not superficial gratification. We have lost struggle as an ideal, and forgotten that all great things are gained through it. Society needs heroism.

7. This is tough to summarise neatly. Our individualism, entertainment and jobs that physically destroy our energy have left us feeling isolated. This isolation makes us feel worthless and unable to make changes in our world. Where we once knew everyone who lived around us, now we know celebrities overseas. The solution to this is a return to our communities. A greater focus on local communities will leave us feeling as though we have a sense of purpose in our immediate environment by working together and connecting with those who experience the same things we do, silencing fatalistic crises that are so often distracted with masturbation. More can be achieved and gained through localisation, such as the ability for communities to have their own unique differences without affecting the others' wellbeing. Local communities will be arranged by an overarching power in cases where unison is required (e.g., warfare).

8 & 9. Economy and technology are the same. We have confused the means to an end as the end in itself, losing focus of our goals as a society.

Nothing more to add.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 10, 2008, 06:47:56 PM
Humanity led itself increasingly astray over time from chief competitor among other competing and evolving lifeforms and toward total domination and increasing degrees of self-awareness. The latter part, it seems, is akin to the biblical partaking of the forbidden fruit. The result is that modern man consciously positions himself and self-image at the center of the universe. Since the universe does not revolve around mankind's existence, anthrocentricism is a type of self-deception we moderns affirm with one another and pass along to the next generation. Nonetheless, our societies today are founded with a self-deceptive, anthrocentric, me-first orientation which when put to the test, fails to square with objective reality as it really exists. With the preceding concept in mind, your ten points could better be answered.

Great post. Are you familiar with Daniel Quinn or Julian Jaynes? The latter is particularly interesting to me, but it's rare to find any discussion on him. I was just curious, since you made the correlation between individualism and self-awareness.

Here's my take on these questions:

1. Overpopulation and multiculturalism. Solutions: Eugenics and segregation; also, when possible, getting rid of the division of labor.

2. Attempts at explaining what hunter-gatherers were either already familiar with for millions of years, or had never been exposed to due to limited consciousness. Solution: Think foundationally, with precedence in mind; shamans come before Derrida.

3. Liberalism disguised as goal achievement-engineering. Solution: Destroy academia completely and focus on passing on valuable traditions and skills.

4. A secular, materialistic, and pragmatic variant of number two; as such, number two's solution still applies.

5. Aural ritual in a crisis due to lacking any context other than a capitalistic one. Solution: Emphasize the eternal in music and deny anything which praises the finite.

6. Irrelevant pairing of words loosely related to number one.

7. Individualism is what happens when conscious beings wind up low on resources -- either material resources, in the case of the Fertile Crescent and the emergence of ancient Egypt, et al., or idealistic resources, in the case of modernity. Consequently, castes form and subjugation begins in the former, while ostensible classlessness results in degeneracy in the latter. If we are to preserve servitude and caste systems, we must emphasize beauty through holism rather than morality or progress. However, castes have only existed for the last several thousand years -- a paltry amount of time in the face of humanity's lengthy history -- so finding a transcendental alternative could work (and might not be a bad idea given the cyclical trap of rise and fall we've recently entered).

8. Meaningless abstraction put in place to justify domination and overconsumption. Solution: Eliminate.

9. Technology is about three million years old. There's nothing inherently wrong with it whatsoever. Like a lot of the above, precedence and context must be stressed. Guns don't kill people; people kill people. Technology doesn't destroy societies; people destroy societies -- or further still, memes destroy societies.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 10, 2008, 11:28:17 PM
8. Meaningless abstraction put in place to justify domination and overconsumption. Solution: Eliminate.

9. Technology is about three million years old. There's nothing inherently wrong with it whatsoever. Like a lot of the above, precedence and context must be stressed. Guns don't kill people; people kill people. Technology doesn't destroy societies; people destroy societies -- or further still, memes destroy societies.

The Economy (modern parlance) fits your description, but I don't believe it is possible to have a world without AN economy (system of production and exchange).  Your solution for #9 is probably applicable to #8.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 11, 2008, 02:20:57 AM
This is why I like the idea of the recluse, your own will to power is the law and only source of government. It solves all problems associated with society by doing away with.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 11, 2008, 02:55:44 AM
This is why I like the idea of the recluse, your own will to power is the law and only source of government. It solves all problems associated with society by doing away with.

That's a romantic distraction, not a solution.

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 11, 2008, 03:01:16 AM
1. population and ethnicities

ethnic self-determination

2. philosophy and religion

transcendental idealism, probably in hindu or pagan-christian form

3. education

promote the best, send the rest to vocational school

4. laws and government

aristocracy and feudalism

5. music (and entertainment)

make it harder to release

6. survival and reproduction

breed the strong, exile the weak

7. how communties are set up in order to function properly

local, small, familiar communities

8. economy

end usury

9. technology

need guardians

10. place anything that you think should be here and explain why and what

love is the answer, love guided by natural PATTERNS


Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 11, 2008, 11:07:27 AM
ah i see we have some valid answers. good good.

just one problem, how will everyone conform to all of this? wouldn't they try to kill us all?

Re: What is Beneficial to humanity?
September 11, 2008, 12:09:19 PM
Anthem364 is correct.

We can't superimpose controlling means such as eugenics and ethnicity upon a system that is very much opposed to it. However, I do think that the inevitable dissolution of the unstable and aimless free market economies in the western world will solve many problems. It is by far modernity's most destructive effect on social cohesion, moreso than democracy which many people around these parts choose to attack instead. When all relationships cease to become consumer goods, the value of 'novelty' and 'choice' will be overturned, markets will become more adapted to social needs. We are already seeing the current system, which has lasted for a mere fraction of history breaking up as increasingly divided parts of the world struggle for regional hegemony and control over limited natural resources. Once this comes to fruition, free market will be gone, the facade of 'economic progress' will no longer be a reason to develop the third world, increase population, individualize and globalize; only then eugenics, aristocracy and feudalism may well become viable, depending on the (unified) preferences of the local culture.