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Predominant racial types amongst metal musicians

here's Demilich.  First of all, it's kind of funny that all these guys kind of look like each other.  Secondly, again, these guys do not look cro-magnon, or "harsh," in the least.  The man in the forefront (is this Antti?) actually reminds me of Ildjarn because, again, there's something "neutral" about the way his face looks, maybe not androgynous, but not overly masculine.  he almost looks like an alien or something - same thing with Ildjarn.

here's a younger Bathory.  And here:  http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z50/Gawenbass/Quorthon5B685D.jpg  I obviously can't confirm that this is, indeed, Quorthon, but assuming it is, he's clearly a handsome man.  Not "harsh" or overly masculine, at all.  Again, I don't think it's that crazy to say he has some "feminine" features.

In summation:  between Ildjarn, Varg, and Quorthon, at least, I don't think the innovators of metal look cro-magnon, or "harsh," at all.  They're VERY "fair" looking.

let me also make a point about good looking women.  I happen to think that some of most beautiful girls I've known, and some of the best lays I've had, have actually been women who are slightly "Tom-boyish" in looks and personality - taller, athletic build, don't need a lot of makeup, they have a "manly" libido.  these are the kind of girls you want to settle down with.  they're a better lay and they're not consumed with their looks.

so here's the point:  it doesn't surprise me that brilliant men have feminine features, and it doesn't surprise me that great women have masculine features.  let's face it:  we're as much a product of our father as we are our mother.  every male has some female in them and every female has some male in them.  In the Jungian archetype terminology it is anima and animus.  A well-turned out person has their anima and animus in balance.  in the Jungian archetype scheme, when anima and animus is in perfect union, it is called syzygy.

Human sexual dimorphism is considered to be relatively low compared to other animals, and I have to agree with your assertions.

There's actually some masculine characteristics, like facial hair, that we are forced to shed in order to seem "non-threatening" in modern society, like the beard, which serves the same function as a lion's mane, being a secondary sexual characteristic, which designates off-hand that the person is a male.

Quoting the Wikipedo:
"In the course of history, men with facial hair have been ascribed various attributes such as wisdom and knowledge, sexual virility, or high social status; and, conversely, filthiness, crudeness, or an eccentric disposition, such as in the case of a tramp, hobo or vagrant. In many cultures beards are associated with nature and outdoorsmen."

Masculinity is threatening and taboo for some reason...

JJ

Masculinity is threatening and taboo for some reason...

For the same reason strong leadership is threatening. Being assertive and telling people no to achieve greatness is offensive. The general public is like a woman. They'll walk over you if you allow them and their neuroticism grows stronger. But a strong leader knows the GP doesn't have to admit they secretly adore masculinity to follow the alpha.

The trick to leading a nation and dating is to differentiate strong leadership (masculinity) and control (insecurity).

let me also make a point about good looking women.  I happen to think that some of most beautiful girls I've known, and some of the best lays I've had, have actually been women who are slightly "Tom-boyish" in looks and personality - taller, athletic build, don't need a lot of makeup, they have a "manly" libido.  these are the kind of girls you want to settle down with.  they're a better lay and they're not consumed with their looks.

I'm frantically searching this paragraph for objectivity and failing: "better lay"? I must have missed that derivable piece of universal wisedom in my epistemological studies, or was it on a Rosetta stone of modernity? Yes I'm being a cynical bastard---I disagree with your conclusions.

I agree with this point: Settle down with someone that is not concerned (consumed? chomp munch burp, looking in the mirror is like eating chocolate cake?) with looks. Although I wouldn't be attracted to someone that rolls in their own shit.

Being tall and/or athletic doesn't corroborate with being 'tom-boyish', although you are probably correct in asserting that tom-boys have a manly libido. Perhaps that last point is axiomatic? I don't think they necessarily make good partners, as I'm of the inclination that a good partner should not butt heads with me as another male would. I don't want an alpha-male in female form. I can only forsee argument after argument with these independent, 'free-thinking', hip women: this is where I point to Eva Herman's "Das Eva-Prinzip" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Herman).

Opinion (not objective): I'd much prefer a submissive (too much Schopenhauer for me?) yet intelligent (good mental health) female, as I believe that is more natural to their role as a potential mother. 'Athletic', ie physically healthy is a must.

heh heh.  good points.  all of my assertions are certainly opinions and based on personal experience.  "better lay" was not one of my more eloquent turns - that was a meat-head moment.  "consumed" works though, doesn't it?  I love that you're a stickler for language, though.  I actually think you're right about settling down with a more submissive woman.


There's actually some masculine characteristics, like facial hair, that we are forced to shed in order to seem "non-threatening" in modern society, like the beard, which serves the same function as a lion's mane


That's why real men have beards ;).

I remember hearing that in some Islamic areas the village people won't talk to U.S. soldiers that don't have beards.

"consumed" works though, doesn't it?  I love that you're a stickler for language, though. 

Consumed (to spend wastefully)works. I just had an amusing image in my head of someone looking at themself in the mirror and getting excited, hence my analogy.


On the original topic, I wonder if we are assuming that universal (gender-independent) good looks are inherently associated with femininity. Therefore, if we assert that Varg/Quothorn are good looking and hence feminine in appearance then I wonder if we have arrived at the conclusion via social conditioning: "true men must be tough and brutal", this may conjur a mental image that is in contrast with our assumed (learned) meaning of good looks. I would presume that the conclusion we arrive at is expected for any heterosexual modern male, we are not conditioned to consider other males as good looking. I further wonder how well we can separate a notion of universal good looks from sexual attraction.

On the original topic, I wonder if we are assuming that universal (gender-independent) good looks are inherently associated with femininity. Therefore, if we assert that Varg/Quothorn are good looking and hence feminine in appearance then I wonder if we have arrived at the conclusion via social conditioning: "true men must be tough and brutal", this may conjur a mental image that is in contrast with our assumed (learned) meaning of good looks. I would presume that the conclusion we arrive at is expected for any heterosexual modern male, we are not conditioned to consider other males as good looking. I further wonder how well we can separate a notion of universal good looks from sexual attraction.

it wouldn't necessarily be social conditioning to ifnd female traits more naturally attractive than male traits; our genetic basis is female

You don't have to be innovative to be influential. Rock groups like Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix and Black Sabbath weren't listening to German polka and Celtic folk. They were listening to Robert Johnson and Mississippi Fred McDowell. Not that that makes them musical geniuses or anything. Just influential musicians.

I have to agree. While most of the blues musicality has existed since before its creation it does not mean it cannot be an influence, that influence an influence that then influences metal. While it should be noted that many forms of folk and indeed European folk music also had its bearing this direct contribution is not as dominant as the blues and early rock music. However on the note of Black Sabbath while one may here a strong blues influence, folk music also can be heard in their earlier albums. So while I do not deny ASBO's assertion (given that rock journalists are not very credible) I also believe these other forms of music were not the sole propagators of metal and that blues does play a large part in the development of early metal. 

it wouldn't necessarily be social conditioning to find female traits more naturally attractive than male traits; our genetic basis is female

It could be argued just as easily that the female form is that of an underdeveloped man.

I thought what the original post wanted to discuss is about the dominant racial type among metal artists but here we have a thread about who looks the cutest or ugliest among metal players. Frankly. it doesn't bother me in the goddamn least. I could care less if the members of Black Sabbath were descended from Neanderthal men or from Australopitecus Africanus.
On the other hand, what's a man's body frame or structure got to do with his ability to play metal music? Glenn Danzig has a pretty ugly body shape to begin with but it doesn't affect his performance whatsoever. Add the fact that one of Tony Iommi's hands got caught in the machine during a day job didn't make a difference to his playing either. As for Varg's cute looks, that could'nt be denied alright, but he's a coward, i bet he couldn't slug it out mano a mano with anyone, i bet those ugly brute neanderthals in jail are having a great time ramming their dicks up his little ass, heh heh

It could be argued just as easily that the female form is that of an underdeveloped man.
it's not an argument, it's a scientifically verified and well-known reality. "underdeveloped," in that context, suggests a way of looking at the world in which morals and opinions mold reality. if you want to have a debate over whether female or male bodies are a "higher" form, look elsewhere. males are modifications of female bodies - the x-y chromosome interaction, fetal development, and virgin births all point to this. it's the same in most other animals as well(i won't say "all," but that's simply because i don't know).

Abelard:  I believe we cleared this up:

Contrarily, it's not a simple, Nordicist explanation, leading to, "well us Hessians are the true aristocracy of society, etc, etc." Many very aristocratic-looking, Nordic-type individuals would look really out of place in a metal band. My first thoughts were that so called Cro-magnon types were predominant (who have a strong connection the ancient warrior caste). that might be stretching things.

http://www.sickdrummer.com/images_shirts/mike_smith_sd_shirt.jpg

I think this topic has a bad title. It should be:

Predominant facial/body/caste types amongst metal musicians

As you pointed out, race is not what's being discussed here, because other than the fortunate few exceptions, metal is a European art form.

That being said...

I think metal -- by this I mean its innovators -- fits people who want a masculine, warlike, music that worships power instead of trying to bend to the crowd and offer up some pandering moral platitude.

I can't help but liken this to an attempt to anylise the predominant racial type in hip-hop music and why that might be.

I can't help but liken this to an attempt to anylise the predominant racial type in hip-hop music and why that might be.

Considering I have seen all kinds of Racial groups listen to (and almost to the same extent create) hip-hop from Mexicans, Blacks, Asians from both the northern and southern varieties, Indians to Europeans of Mediterranean, Slavish and Celtic decent (and middle eastern Hip hop is popular as well) I do not think there is a predominant racial type for hip-hop.