Questions About Family, Friends, and Employment...

[wood]

I have nothing in common with any of the above catagories.

Within the last few years I've attempted to change my ideology, which previously was christian (raised) then agnostic (teen).  My current stance is athiest and what I believe to be nihlist.

Anyway..

My family and friends are christian type people, with friends it's easy to disregaurd them.. but with family what do I do if I'm uncomfortable around them?  I'm hesitant to say I 'love' them but for all intents and purposes I think I do.  My father was a christian pastor for a long time, and has always 'been there' for me.  I guess I'm just curious if anyone has been or is in a similar situation and how they deal with it.  Right now I maintain a relationship with my father, religion gets brought up and we talk and his arguments are stupid but I'm at a loss on how to counter.  I'm not all that good at debates, and he has a masters in theology.. but in the little we've bickerd he sounds stupid.

My mind says to tell him how stupid he sounds, and this sounds gay.. but my 'heart' or instictual effection says to ignor his flaws and remain loyal.. and really, I'm at a loss.

As far as friends, I've given a small hint as to their relevence in my life, and it's not much.. but for the little it is, I'm just wanting a basic idea as to what to do?  Ditch?  For lack of a better term.. attempt to 'convert'?  Those are really the only two options I see, but if there are others that are feasable I would be interested in hearing them.

Money is a means to an end, a source of income to meet that end is necessary.  I spent some time in the military and have a GI bill that is getting upgraded so it's actually worth looking at going to school full time, what's a worthwhile degree?  Is education necessary for a worthwhile life?  I realize it's a subjective question, so I guess I'm asking in terms of american society or society in general.

[anthropoid sarcophagus]

There's probably no use in discussing religion with your father as you ultimately can't PROVE that his desert god is nonexistent and he can't PROVE otherwise. I turn to my father for advice when it comes to guitar exercises,my car,any type of technical thing. I don't look to him for advice on living or making important choices. I regard him as delusional because he rules such things by a literal belief in the bible. I've told my father how stupid he sounds before and he's told me how I'm making a big mistake and etc..it basically goes nowhere and is pointless.

It's good to have friends and while you should talk about your views on life,philosophy and etc, everyone must come to such conclusions on their own. I have two friends who've arrived at the same place I have(in terms of looking at the world). The other three know that things in our society are backwards and know something is wrong but they are either not comfortable thinking about it or confine it to a certain country,area,type of people and so on. Instead of trying to convert them I will simply offer my opinion and viewpoint when we get into a discussion. While it's healthy to have close friends you definitely have to realize you are the most important thing. Therefore, if you have friends that are downright morons,who might drag you down or get you into trouble..then get rid of them.

Money is frustrating and I am at the same type of crossroads. You know money is paper that you must exchange for basic goods. Hating your job and knowing this fact is depressing so you must find a way to make this "money" bullshit without being miserable. I am debating school. I think about trades or skills that will be around for awhile. Computer technician comes to mind,teaching(if that's your thing),mortician,doctor. I am hesitant because I would need help from our broke ass government and as of now I have zero debt. I am also hesitant to juggle school and work as one seems like it will suffer after awhile. When will I have the time to just think and be? I can also see what a mess the economy is,and what a bigger mess it will become. What is going to change? Is going to college going to be realistic? I will be looking through a catalog for community college and an hour later be planning the garden out for the spring and buying extra food/water for the basement.

[ASBO]

My family and friends are christian type people, with friends it's easy to disregaurd them.. but with family what do I do if I'm uncomfortable around them?  I'm hesitant to say I 'love' them but for all intents and purposes I think I do.  My father was a christian pastor for a long time, and has always 'been there' for me.  I guess I'm just curious if anyone has been or is in a similar situation and how they deal with it.  Right now I maintain a relationship with my father, religion gets brought up and we talk and his arguments are stupid but I'm at a loss on how to counter.  I'm not all that good at debates, and he has a masters in theology.. but in the little we've bickerd he sounds stupid.

Our society has its head up its ass.

Most people do, too, because they have to work in it.

Be patient. Emphasize the positive, not the negative, and use plain common sense.

I wouldn't for example attack your Dad's Christianity. Try to find common ground instead: "I believe in the sacred nature of life, and the importance of doing right -- however, I have thrown out all human judgments and anthropomorphisms in doing so."

Your friends and family may always have their heads up their asses nonetheless. Love them, be good to them, and lead by example with your beliefs. If you start making sense, it's because first they noticed you found a better way of living in the world and not bickering over pointless tokens and symbols.

[Helmholtz]

As far as friends, I've given a small hint as to their relevence in my life, and it's not much.. but for the little it is, I'm just wanting a basic idea as to what to do?  Ditch?  For lack of a better term.. attempt to 'convert'?  Those are really the only two options I see, but if there are others that are feasable I would be interested in hearing them.

"Conversion" is not likely the best route, unless some of them seem intelligent.  You may want to try putting some ideas forward to them, and seeing how they react to them, and if you can get some intelligent discussion out of it, there might be something there to pursue.  However, I warn against trying to change them outright, isn't that what the Christians do?  Certainly engage them in debate, you might find some worth there you were previously unaware of.  Overall though, socialization cannot substitute for a life, though it is healthy and pleasant to engage in.  Keep that in mind, though from the way you've written it seems you already have to a degree.  Socialization is less important than what you could be striving for in life.

[Humanicide]

As cheesy as it may sound, your family members will always love you, no matter what. Show them the same.

My mother and i differ greatly in our beliefs, to the point where we fight nearly every day. But even though i may not LIKE her, i still love her, for all she has provided for myself and my siblings.

The important thing is to never compromise who YOU are, for the sake of society. That is sheep behavior. Take ASBO's advice, try to find a common ground, a mutual respect. Accept them for who they are, be as civil as you can, and they will accept you.

[ASBO]

The important thing is to never compromise who YOU are, for the sake of society. That is sheep behavior.

True. But my nihilist view:

The important thing is never to compromise reality for the sake of society. That is the power of the sheep.

[Helmholtz]

As cheesy as it may sound, your family members will always love you, no matter what. Show them the same.

My mother and i differ greatly in our beliefs, to the point where we fight nearly every day. But even though i may not LIKE her, i still love her, for all she has provided for myself and my siblings.

Family is the closest you'll ever come to unconditional love.  You would not exist were it not for them, and certainly would have found it difficult to survive without them.  Beyond that, biologically, there are no people you are closer to than they.  They do deserve an amount of honor and respect as such.

[istaros]

apart from the military aspect, my situation seems similar to yours. except i don't find it troublesome anymore. let people influence you only in the way that they influence you positively. my father has a very annoying, effeminate personality, and not only his beliefs but even his reasoning for his beliefs are ludicrous - however, he has always been loyal to us, has always worked hard to provide for us, and apart from that i admire him simply for being someone with an incomparable skill at getting things DONE. in these areas, i allow him to influence me. in morality and worldview, i do not, because in these areas he is weak.

know what you're weaknesses are and use others to better them. same with friends - most of them offer me very little in the way of adapting my lifestyle or creating goals; but they do help me maintain a degree of social skills

[Stranger]

The older one gets, the older one realizes that the people you meet, come and go. The only people who remain are family. DO NOT ruin that.

We all disagree with others, regardless of who it is. And my advice (not just with family) would be to be true to yourself, and accept that others will do the same.

[wood]

There is some good information here that I will attempt to build off of.

Simply put, I should take all of the best and worthwhile qualities (dedication, loyalty, ect..) from family and friends, and disregaurd all of the meaningless values (love thy neighbour blah blah blah) by which most of these qualities stemmed from.  It makes perfect sense now that I'm typing it out and seeing it in black and white.

It's unfortunate to me, that people like my father, who in his own way is a 'good' person, needs to define his character by a meaningless book.  I guess it's probably the same old thing that's been hammered home on these boards thousands of times.

So, in retrospect, stay true to myself, use society and all it's demands as a means to a productive end (still working on what this is), and take the best of what is good and real from the people around you regaurdless of the reasons behind their good qualities.  I guess the tricky part for me, was separating all of the bullshit religion, values, and morals, from the worthwhile core qualities that can (and should) be independant of this societies training regiment.

Thank you for the responses, this has helped.

[beyond_godlike]

I am not close at all with my family. I don't really have any friends. There's maybe three people that I can count on and one that'll always be there. I have always been independent and I'm quite used to it. I've tried to make friends recently, but after years of avoiding all contact with people, it is hard and I don't really care enough to put any kind of effort into it.

I am going to university. I plan to get a Ph.D. I want to study genetics, or at least something in the biochemistry field. I find genetics particularly interesting and I plan to do research on it. My second choice of job would be neuroscience research. I am very interested in these things and I will have a very satisfying and high paying job. I think I will have a very happy future and the advantages of education are very evident to me. Maybe I just have a passion for learning that you people may not have. Or maybe you people haven't been inspired. Read any basic quantum physics paper and tell me you are not interested and want to know more. Quantum physicists took a picture of the same electron in two places at once! How can that possibly not interest you?!? Sadly, there aren't many satisfying jobs as a theoretical physicist which is why I'm settling for biochemistry which is also very interesting.

[Chessnut]

I just got my work evaluation (for my university co-op program) back, and my areas that require improvement are oral communication and professionalism. Hah.

I believe university is required nowadays for any type of job. Engineering is likely worthwhile if you're into math and hard science.

To beyond_godlike: I also find quantum mechanics interesting, though more specifically, astrophysics. What theory allows electrons to be in two places at once? I'm quite familiar with quantum mechanics, and I've never heard of such thing. I'm under the impression that it was just light transmitted in the picture at two different times. The particle itself is not in two places, else that would break quite a few laws. I find superfluidity, how time is discrete, quark and preon degeneracy fairly fascinating. I'm looking forward to the LHC figuring out that Higgs boson!