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Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?

chthonian

Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 09:33:04 AM
Hi,

I would first like to start off by saying that I'm new here, and out of need for philosophical stimulation (and boredom) I joined this forum.

Black Metal is a contradiction because the aesthetics associated with "Black" are the complete opposite of the aesthetics of "Metal." Just as Anton Laveyan Satanism is the opposite of Bible Belting Christianity, and just as the Right wing agenda is the opposite of Left wing's agenda. Black and Metal by themselves have completely different agendas that actually oppose each other.

Part of the problem here is that not everyone agrees on the meanings of the two terms. They all fail to realize that it's not the sound of the music by it's self, but the abstract qualities we associate it with, it is our subjective interpretation. It doesn't matter if a band is heavy, hard, fast, and/or raw, that could apply to other genres of music.  Therefore, you can not define a certain genre of music by it's physical sound alone, because that isn't even a fraction of the whole picture. This is why people don't agree, because they all have their own seperate ideas of the same terms, and this causes confusion and lose of identity in music and all art. We need more labels and terms, and more understanding of what's what. Boundaries in music (and all other art forms) would actually promote creativity, if you don't fit in one genre, then you can move to another or make your own.

So, I think "Black" refers to dark macabre aesthetics, the occult, horror, death, sadistic, spiritual, and darkness that's just beyond words...
That's part of the problem, some of it for me is just beyond words. However, "Metal" to me is more mundane, "folky", and makes me think of metal head idiots throwing up the horns in drunken stupidity.

Now, here is where many of you may hate me, I think many bands that are typically depicted as the epitome of black metal are complete shit, and not very black at all. Groups like Emperor (I only like Wrath of the tyrant), Darkthrone, "Viking era Bathory", Mayhem, Deathspell Omega, Krieg, Immortal (after first album), Nargaroth, Gorgoroth, Blasphemy, Crapathian Forest, Venom, all NSBM, French BM, most of Burzum even, none of it is very Black when you really think about it. But maybe it really is "Black Metal," since black metal is a contradiction, and these bands are seriously confused.

This is why black metal is a failure...  However, the death of Black Metal would actually be a good thing, it could help promote a much darker, more occult, and more serious form of music to unify as a completely seperate genre with it's own regulated boundaries, but only as long as people recognize this.

Or, most likely, people will continue failing to understand the whole point in even having true aesthetics. It's not like they are worthy of understanding such a concept.

chthonian

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 10:19:04 AM
Hmmm...

Now that I've look around in this forum, and I've seen what horrible taste people have on here, I'm starting to wonder if posting this was worth it.

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 03:23:48 PM
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Hmmm...

Now that I've look around in this forum, and I've seen what horrible taste people have on here, I'm starting to wonder if posting this was worth it.


If you had read the REVIEWS in the dark legions archive, you may have realised just how 'horrible' the average tastes of members here (including me) are. (or at least the administrator)

chthonian

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 03:33:49 PM
He does review some good bands, but I don't understand how he can put Darkthrone over Demoncy or even Immortal's first album. I don't have the patience to analyze everything he is saying, but he's made good points (for example Paul Ledney really is an idiot savant.)
The people who run ANUS all seem like they are very smart, but I feel that they are missing out on the big picture. It seems to me that they only talk about Black Metal in mundane political terms, almost completely leaving out Aesthetics - our spiritual nature.

But I didn't come here to find agreement with anyone, only to make a few points, and to see what others think.

euronymous

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:11:15 PM
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Groups like Emperor (I only like Wrath of the tyrant), Darkthrone,, Mayhem, Deathspell Omega, Krieg, Immortal (after first album),  Gorgoroth, Blasphemy, all NSBM, French BM, most of Burzum even, none of it is very Black when you really think about it. But maybe it really is "Black Metal," since black metal is a contradiction, and these bands are seriously confused..


Who is confused really ?

chthonian

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:13:38 PM
I didn't say I knew all the answers. It's just that this mess called "black metal" doesn't make any sense at all. It's not so much that I am confused as it is that I am trying to make some sense of something that has no logical boundaries.

euronymous

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:18:56 PM
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I didn't say I knew all the answers. This mess called "black metal" doesn't make much sense to me at all. So yes, I am confused in some sense, because I can't make sense of something that has no logical boundaries.



What it doesn't make sense is the fact you say the originators of BM aren't BM just because they don't fit in a cliché that is a product of your mind.



chthonian

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:22:42 PM
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What it doesn't make sense is the fact you say the originators of BM aren't BM just because they don't fit in a cliché that is a product of your mind.


Well yes, that's correct, I'm basically saying that we need some agreement on terms. And to say it is merely a product of my mind is the same as me saying that you only exist in my head (not saying that's is true or false.)

euronymous

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:27:11 PM
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Well yes, that's correct, I'm basically saying that we need some agreement on terms. And to say it is merely a product of my mind is the same as me saying that you only exist in my head (not saying that's is true or false.)


No, it's not the same; What I mean is that the cliché has been created trhough your REAL musical experience and the way you asimilate it.


chthonian

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:30:57 PM
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No, it's not the same; What I mean is that the cliché has been created trhough your REAL musical experience and the way you asimilate it.


I have been influenced, yes, but only because I had these opinions to begin with. Otherwise I would be influenced by everything, why is it that people choose what influences them? Influence isn't quite what we think it is, it is something much deeper and more spiritual.
It is only the terms that are mundane, mere words, you could reverse the meanings of good and evil, black and white, but the aesthetics of the individual don't change, only the terms they use.

euronymous

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:33:45 PM
I agree... but ...ROFL

chthonian

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:34:16 PM
What's so funny?

euronymous

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:36:11 PM
nothing man,  ;)

chthonian

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:39:27 PM
I wonder what Prozac would say about this.

euronymous

Re: Black metal, terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 27, 2005, 04:44:44 PM
I wonder too, but I guess he probably will come to an agreement if we call BM at least to the foundational bands. I'd do.