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Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?

chthonian

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 30, 2005, 06:43:19 AM
I really feel that a lot of you on here misunderstand what I'm saying, and it's my fault for not being specific enough. When I am saying "we really do care about terms", many of you think that I am only talking about the name or label in a trivial sense. However, what I am saying is far deeper than that, this isn't a name in the same sense as giving people or pets names simply to know who's who; names that are made solely for that purpose do not take into consideration the actual identity of that person or thing. Therefore, we shouldn't care about labels as much in that trivial sense. If you truly like a band, that decision is not made because of whatever label the masses assign to that particular band. So,  a term is merely a term, merely a word, and words as they are mean nothing without the interpretation of a subjective entity.

What I am talking about when I say "terms" is the agreement "agreement marker" among certain groups on interpretations. As humans (physically) this is how we communicate intellectually, and this is necessary for the like minded people to recognize their like-mindedness (or lack thereof) with others. It is the acknowledgement of something's identity from one person to another! Also, to avoid further confusion, you can still have terms without language - there could be some kind of visual identity markers, and it would be the same thing... But, language makes it a whole lot easier.

It is in this case that the "term" is the identity marker of the aesthetics and the philosophy, the marker for the group to agree on and recognize each other's understanding. This "group" could be "your future band", or (as I was using as an example) people that you agree with on subjects of philosophy and aesthetics.

If you hate the idea of being in a "group" of any kind, you still need identity markers as a human. We all consciously and subconsciously classify things to recognize what they all share in common that we like about them, and the marker for these properties that we like is what i have been calling the "terms". After all, you have to make sure you agree with yourself.

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 30, 2005, 12:06:50 PM
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Actually I couldn't give two shits. If Ildjarn were suddenly labelled Misanthropic Techno-blast I would still love their music. If Morpheus Descends were suddenly named to be a neo-fusion of rapcore and trance, I'd still love their works. Its about the aesthetics and philosophical content, not the label put on it, in my humble opinion.


Exactly. Music and music terminology are two separate things.

chthonian

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 30, 2005, 12:20:08 PM
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Exactly. Music and music terminology are two separate things.


You know, something I find interesting about dark music is that there is actually nothing dark about sound it's self. We call it dark because of the images the music brings us of darkness, these images are the aspect qualities we get when listening to the music from our "aesthetic consciousness".
Without these abstract visual qualities, music would nothing. The "terms" mark identity, and it would be illogical for us not to take this seriously.

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 30, 2005, 07:26:26 PM
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The "terms" mark identity, and it would be illogical for us not to take this seriously.


Just as a band name identifies the band, you might say? And if the band were given a different name, wouldn't it still be the same band with the same sound, releases, and members? All that would have changed would be how we identify the essence of the music, and not the music itself, correct?


Regardless of the term given to the music and it's ideas, the ideas and music themselves do not change. Some people may be preoccupied with titles and names, however they are but superficial representations, and do not matter much to me personally.

chthonian

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 30, 2005, 07:34:25 PM
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Just as a band name identifies the band, you might say? And if the band were given a different name, wouldn't it still be the same band with the same sound, releases, and members? All that would have changed would be how we identify the essence of the music, and not the music itself, correct?
Regardless of the term given to the music and it's ideas, the ideas and music themselves do not change. Some people may be preoccupied with titles and names, however they are but superficial representations, and do not matter much to me personally.


That's exactly what I was saying... But by "terms" I mean something other than what you think.

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
November 30, 2005, 07:39:36 PM
Than enlighten us with a short definition of what you do mean.

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
December 03, 2005, 06:31:05 PM
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Exactly. Music and music terminology are two separate things.


Depends on who uses the terminology.

Another way to put this is that not every book, or every sentence, is true.

The next level on that is realistic: a sentence can be logically true but not apply to this world at all (If dogs are anarchists, they probably don't vote).


chthonian

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
December 04, 2005, 10:36:40 PM
Music and music terminology are two different things. But, what you are all failing to understand is that in order for us to work together or at least find out which group we really belong in, we need terms that we can all agree on, just as we all agree that a square has 4 sides. Without agreement, it is every black metallers for himself, total chaos. It because we can not agree that the masses (who are just discovering it) are reinventing it for themselves, and the media is following along.

And you may be thinking, so what?
Have you ever considered that, if more people understood the true nature of black metal, that it would be easier for like minded people to come together and make good bands? Good magazines?
Don't you think that less stupidity is better? Isn't it worth the benefits of productivity, if groups can come together as aesthetic covens - with their own bands and philosophies?


Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
December 05, 2005, 02:28:55 AM
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Have you ever considered that, if more people understood the true nature of black metal, that it would be easier for like minded people to come together and make good bands?


Not for black metal, but in general, that's why I write.

However, the abilities of people vary, so be careful what you make public, I've found.


chthonian

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
December 05, 2005, 05:25:30 AM

We need a solid agreement on what black metal is, on what "black" is, and what "metal" is. Saying Black is only Anti-morality, and nothing more, in my opinion is wrong.

What about dark Aesthetics, what about the horror/occult themes? I can tell you from actual knowledge of the occult that these in are in no way at all being used as metaphors. There are people who are very sadistic, who's aesthetic literally are death and darkness. It is these people who are far more worthy of the title "black" since it applies to them literally.

chthonian

Re: Black metal = terms contradicting aesthetics?
December 05, 2005, 05:44:33 AM
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Than enlighten us with a short definition of what you do mean.


Here is what I am saying...

You have "terms" as in words in our "language", they are mere words, and then you have these identity markers in your mind, markers of what "is" and what is "not". I consider these identity markers in the mind as terms, so that I may make an analogy with the terms we use in our language to communicate these ideas of certain aesthetics, and whatever we may believe is "this" or "that".
The human mind does not make any confusion over it's own aesthetics (even if it is unaware of the concept of aesthetics). The mind segregates what it likes from what it does not. When it finds something it likes, it puts it in a certain category of things it likes, and these are separated from those things that it views as adverse and uncomplimentary. It's like a filing cabinet.

Although often humans are confused about many things on every level, there is never any confusion with aesthetics. With Aesthetics, we only progress and discover new things that were better than before. We know what we want from the beginning, but we must be influenced sometimes. However, In order to be influenced, we must already know what we want, because we choose what influences us. It's a very spiritual thing...