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The 'morons' and their role in society

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 20, 2008, 02:57:02 PM
yes, but by being able to make a correct observation he displays potential. conclusions, which in the end are just opinions, are highly malleable.

my point is that it does seem that voicing disdain for the moron masses is, far more often than not, little more than an excuse to avoid addressing one's own issues.

I agree, but you don't throw out the practice because some sully it -- on the whole, the pursuit of "truth" is people avoiding their own issues.

What does this tell you? THE PROBLEM IS PEOPLE, NOT ELITISM.

Any idiot can make a correct observation. It takes a smart person to find the pattern in 10,000 of them.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 20, 2008, 03:52:23 PM
when was whining NOT a sullied practice? whining is not only an annoying behavior, it's also an expression that you subconsciously realize you can't change something. self-pity. boo hoo. sometimes making such a statement is useful as it supports a final argument - but to those who merely make the statement without using it towards anything productive i say the following: so 90% of people grate you - who gives a fuck? anyone can complain, it's not impressive and rarely impressionable. distinguish yourself from them instead. a rooster, though more prideful than the hens, is still just poultry at the end of the day.

13X

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 01:42:24 AM
Well-rounded people are hard to come by these days -- this is the direct result of our society's tendency to value good workers over good people. The system stifles human potential. Killing a bunch of dumbfucks isn't a solution, just masking a symptom. It didn't work for Robespierre and it won't work now.

I wasn't saying you're an egomaniac if you recognize that lots of people are stupid, I just question the motives of people that feel the need to incessantly point this fact out.

Also:

Quote
You are: a typical liberal.

The fuck is this supposed to mean?

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 08:01:59 AM
Well-rounded people are hard to come by these days

The evidence that was laid before you gave a glimpse that intelligence might be the best correlate of well-roundedness.

this is the direct result of our society's tendency to value good workers over good people.

I think the society values more cheap workers than good workers, thus leading to a preference to poorer, more incompetent people.

The system stifles human potential.

It's classic liberal pathos to blame an oppressive society.

Killing a bunch of dumbfucks isn't a solution, just masking a symptom.

For once I would like to have a complete answer for "What is wrong with humanity and how can we fix it?" instead of vague complaints of wrong approach. So far there's only been contrarianism and e-dick waving.

"I keep thinking this over and over again, and I find it an amusing Koan.
 
Despite all of our theory, there's not much that machine-gunning all people
under 120 IQ points wouldn't solve.
 
One step to glory and 6.8 bn rotting corpses."

- taken from in2christ list, RIP

It didn't work for Robespierre and it won't work now.

I had no idea that Robespierre had an eugenic execution policy while he was beheading the nobles!

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 03:33:52 PM
when was whining NOT a sullied practice? whining is not only an annoying behavior, it's also an expression that you subconsciously realize you can't change something. self-pity. boo hoo. sometimes making such a statement is useful as it supports a final argument - but to those who merely make the statement without using it towards anything productive i say the following: so 90% of people grate you - who gives a fuck? anyone can complain, it's not impressive and rarely impressionable. distinguish yourself from them instead. a rooster, though more prideful than the hens, is still just poultry at the end of the day.

You're on the wrong page: you're still thinking about how the world effects you personally and your self-image.

The question is how to make the world better.

Trying to "distinguish yourself" is the game of egomaniacs, hipsters, proletarians and slaves.

I don't need to FUCKING DISTINGUISH MYSELF. I need to fix a problem, namely the moribund path of my species.

ken

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 08:20:03 PM
Those who constantly complain about "morons" / "normals" seem more interested in using the ignorance of others as an ego trip where they see themselves as superior to the Masses, as opposed to real analysis of the factors which have caused our society to be the way it is. Why waste time considering difficult sociopolitical questions when you can just wank yourself off over how much smarter you are than everyone else? The stupidity of the average person must just be an immutable part of life, not the direct result of certain social institutions and economic practices.
So everyone who notes a lack of intelligence amongst the mass population is immediately attempting to boost their ego regardless of their intent? Every time that someone points out inequality, in every single situation in which this has happened in history, has only been playing a social power game?

Why write a stupid reply asking a stupid question you know the answer is going to be "no obviously not" to? 13X made a valid assessment.

I wonder where the limits of human stupidity and hypocrisy can reach. The blog that is all too often linked from this forum reads "humanity has made a social reality that denies physical reality" and goes on to advocate depopulation; the most radical and impossible future imaginable. At a guess I'd say the proletarians of the United States are more likely to revolt and Earth will see a communist utopia, than a bill will be passed to kill 5 billion people (or more?) and purge the so called morons.

And then theres the 'individual' card. Similar to the 'sectarian' of left wing debates, someone hates society and what life has come to be, and wants to escape? Thinks, "fuck this all!"? An anarchist?They're an individualist! (note the "they")

Have you talked to your neighbours about genocide? The postman? Your bank mamager? Your girlfriend's mum?

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 08:46:39 PM
Quote
Why write a stupid reply asking a stupid question you know the answer is going to be "no obviously not" to? 13X made a valid assessment.

13X made a socially congenial hypotheses, which isn't the same as a 'valid assessment.'  As I've already pointed out, the vast historical diversity of 'social institutions' and 'economic practices' - even within so-called "Western" cultures - makes it difficult to posit these as the causative agents of human stupidity (unless, of course, the argument is that all social and economic practices in all times and all places have the effect of rendering most people stupid in practice: highly improbable in the first place and impossible to change even if it were true).

That isn't to say that I view genocide as an immediately workable solution to the problem of human stupidity, but we can certainly alter our institutions to insulate against the effects of that stupidity, and to minimize the ability of the stupid to shape the goals of society.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 09:42:21 PM
The blog that is all too often linked from this forum reads "humanity has made a social reality that denies physical reality" and goes on to advocate depopulation; the most radical and impossible future imaginable.

It's impossible.

So you say.

And you are an expert we should believe... why?

Sounds like wishful thinking from one of the more bitter and incoherent users here.

Also, idiot, killing all people under 120 IQ isn't genocide.

ken

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 10:07:46 PM

What sort of "scientific background" would you like? My realization is that most people use this as a cheap diversionary tactic.


More hypocrisy.

"Why should I believe you?"

"Well, why should I believe YOU?"

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 21, 2008, 10:50:58 PM
You're on the wrong page: you're still thinking about how the world effects you personally and your self-image.

The question is how to make the world better.

Trying to "distinguish yourself" is the game of egomaniacs, hipsters, proletarians and slaves.

I don't need to FUCKING DISTINGUISH MYSELF. I need to fix a problem, namely the moribund path of my species.
no, friend. i'm thinking about why one whiner's opinion should be given more credence than another's. frankly, i don't care how the world affects me personally - and the truth is i could stand to care more about my image. i know where my weaknesses lie, and there are plenty, but that is not one of them.

the moribund path of our species is one of which you are part and parcel, as are we all. we all participate in it to one degree or another. with this in mind, wanting to provide a contribution beyond complaining about how much people suck is not an exercise in egoism. trying to distinguish yourself is only a game if one pursues it as an end in and of itselfl. doing it for status, yes, is a game; doing it because it is healthy and sane, no. i didn't say one should "try" to. i said one should do it. if one doesn't make himself better than the surrounding masses(or rather, better than he currently is), his complaining of them is nothing but hot air, as the huge majority of people share the same opinion - but do nothing about it. what problem is fixed simply by noticing the problem? any rube can see human society is in disrepair. i'd say this is the general consensus, in fact - although the causes for this disrepair are nearly always misunderstood, the ability to see that the disrepair exists is nothing to boast about

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 22, 2008, 01:19:48 AM
Purging the world of people who do not meet some modern standard of intelligence is itself quite stupid. A world full of ideas with no force to carry them out. Thinkers but no movers. Intelligence is not the only important factor for judging a person's worth (let alone a "number"). Does a high intelligence make someone less ambitious, less of an egoist, and more likely to work with others towards some "greater cause"? If you want to put certain plans of change into action, people will have to agree ... and I think a population of intelligent people will find it much harder to agree on anything. In fact, some would say we are killing the wrong ones. If idiots are the ones responsible for the current state of our world, then who gave them that power? Who originally came up with ideas like Democracy and created the technologies that are now destroying our planet? Do you think these people will actually fail your IQ/eugenic test? Time to go back to the drawing board.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 22, 2008, 02:05:31 AM
Quote from: ken
depopulation; the most radical and impossible future imaginable

Actually, depopulation is inevitable.  The only question is how it will occur.  Even if everybody on the planet attempted to breed as much as possible, we will eventually reach a state of overpopulation (in the true scientific sense of the term).  When the population of humans vastly exceeds the amount sustainable from Earth's natural resources, there will be all out war and most likely a cannibal holocaust (remember Stalingrad and Leningrad?).  The most reasonable and humane solution, in my opinion, would be to support as much birth control and abortion as possible.  How effective that will ultimately be, I can't say.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 22, 2008, 02:21:01 AM
Quote from: ken
depopulation; the most radical and impossible future imaginable

Actually, depopulation is inevitable.  The only question is how it will occur.  Even if everybody on the planet attempted to breed as much as possible, we will eventually reach a state of overpopulation (in the true scientific sense of the term).  When the population of humans vastly exceeds the amount sustainable from Earth's natural resources, there will be all out war and most likely a cannibal holocaust (remember Stalingrad and Leningrad?).  The most reasonable and humane solution, in my opinion, would be to support as much birth control and abortion as possible.  How effective that will ultimately be, I can't say.

Cutting all funding to AIDS research would be one nice method.  Continued viruses would probably be effective as well, hopefully sexual ones.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 22, 2008, 02:48:26 AM
Quote from: Helmholtz
Cutting all funding to AIDS research would be one nice method.  Continued viruses would probably be effective as well, hopefully sexual ones.

I have to say I'm not particularly a fan of this idea.  HIV lies dormant for around a decade and after that it only weakens the immune system.  Even without treatment, people can live rather long lives.  I also don't like the idea of having a high percentage of the population running around with HIV and not even realizing it.  Not to mention people who intentionally infect others with the virus.  It seems like giving an idiot a machine gun to me.  However, we should definitely stop subsidizing AIDS victims in Africa.  I also liked that idea that was put forward by that LaBruzzo fellow.  (see here)

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
December 22, 2008, 03:08:30 AM
Purging the world of people who do not meet some modern standard of intelligence is itself quite stupid. A world full of ideas with no force to carry them out. Thinkers but no movers. Intelligence is not the only important factor for judging a person's worth (let alone a "number"). Does a high intelligence make someone less ambitious, less of an egoist, and more likely to work with others towards some "greater cause"? If you want to put certain plans of change into action, people will have to agree ... and I think a population of intelligent people will find it much harder to agree on anything. In fact, some would say we are killing the wrong ones. If idiots are the ones responsible for the current state of our world, then who gave them that power? Who originally came up with ideas like Democracy and created the technologies that are now destroying our planet? Do you think these people will actually fail your IQ/eugenic test? Time to go back to the drawing board.

Agreed. Many people are also manipulated by psychological means, including modern man with marketers, advertising and so forth including the 110+ crowd. Has anyone read about NLP and how easy it is to swoop under a persons natural defenses? It certainly isn't the lower IQ crowd whose been inventing and killing and committing the majority of the crimes( Wall Street) , it is the higher IQ that also allows it to continue( CEO's, Scientists, Researchers). Again, flawed logic framed to save everything for selfish ideals.