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The 'morons' and their role in society

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 08, 2009, 10:31:13 PM
Quote from: N0thing
Now when you speak of genetic superiority, you are speaking of how a different race or group can adapt to their surroundings. Each group is designed for their environment. Doesn't make one superior to the other, it just means one is better built for the environment.

My point was that genetic superiority is entirely dependent on environmental circumstances.  Within the context of a given situation, certain people are genetically superior for that situation.

Quote from: N0thing
Smart people can have dumb kids and vice versa.

Yes, and dwarves can give birth to regular sized children, but the chances of that happening are far less than for those of non-dwarves.  Let me put it to you this way:  Tall people usually have tall children and short people usually have short children.  Sometimes small people can have tall children and sometimes tall people can have small children.  The chances of a tall person having a tall child is MUCH GREATER than those for a short person.  If we wanted to build the tallest population we could, we would only want tall people to have children.

Smart people usually have smart children and dumb people usually have dumb children.  Sometimes smart people have dumb children and sometimes dumb people have smart children.  The chances of a smart person having a smart child are MUCH GREATER than those of a dumb person.  So, if we want to push our species to the smarter side of the spectrum, we should only encourage smart people to breed.

I'll ask again, because you haven't answered my previous question.  If there is no genetic or biological basis for intelligence, then why are monkeys and dogs not as smart as people?  Also, if you agree there is a genetic/biological basis for intelligence then (even by probability alone) why would you expect all people or groups of people to have equal intelligence?

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 08, 2009, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: N0thing
Now when you speak of genetic superiority, you are speaking of how a different race or group can adapt to their surroundings. Each group is designed for their environment. Doesn't make one superior to the other, it just means one is better built for the environment.

My point was that genetic superiority is entirely dependent on environmental circumstances.  Within the context of a given situation, certain people are genetically superior for that situation.

Quote from: N0thing
Smart people can have dumb kids and vice versa.

Yes, and dwarves can give birth to regular sized children, but the chances of that happening are far less than for those of non-dwarves.  Let me put it to you this way:  Tall people usually have tall children and short people usually have short children.  Sometimes small people can have tall children and sometimes tall people can have small children.  The chances of a tall person having a tall child is MUCH GREATER than those for a short person.  If we wanted to build the tallest population we could, we would only want tall people to have children.

Smart people usually have smart children and dumb people usually have dumb children.  Sometimes smart people have dumb children and sometimes dumb people have smart children.  The chances of a smart person having a smart child are MUCH GREATER than those of a dumb person.  So, if we want to push our species to the smarter side of the spectrum, we should only encourage smart people to breed.

I'll ask again, because you haven't answered my previous question.  If there is no genetic or biological basis for intelligence, then why are monkeys and dogs not as smart as people?  Also, if you agree there is a genetic/biological basis for intelligence then (even by probability alone) why would you expect all people or groups of people to have equal intelligence?
I believe monkeys and dogs are not as smart because their brains are smaller. I remember watching a special on the evolution of man. When mans brain got bigger, his capacity for intelligence did as well.

I watched the first video. This guy contradicts some of the things said here.
Since we're born with certain instincts, there is no way to "perfect" mankind. Meaning eugenics wouldn't work.
"People should be judged as an individual, and not that statistics of the particular group they belong to."
"Children are shaped by their culture".

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 08, 2009, 11:50:24 PM
Quote from: N0thing
I believe monkeys and dogs are not as smart because their brains are smaller. I remember watching a special on the evolution of man. When mans brain got bigger, his capacity for intelligence did as well.

This is correct.  So you admit that intelligence is based on biological/genetic factors (the brain).  Brain size has a lot to do with it, but there are also some other factors which contribute to intelligence (e.g. distribution of gray matter, brain chemistry, etc).

Quote from: N0thing
I watched the first video. This guy contradicts some of the things said here.
Since we're born with certain instincts, there is no way to "perfect" mankind. Meaning eugenics wouldn't work.
"People should be judged as an individual, and not that statistics of the particular group they belong to."
"Children are shaped by their culture".

Eugenics isn't a means of "perfecting" mankind, simply creating a healthier genetic pool.  I agree that people should be judged as individuals.  I don't want to stop people of certain races from breeding, only individuals who are stupid (no matter what their race).  This doesn't change the fact that some races are generally smarter than others.  Also, nobody is saying environment has NO effect on people, merely that genetics and biology have a much greater effect on people.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 09, 2009, 03:19:37 PM
So you admit that intelligence is based on biological/genetic factors (the brain). 

Eugenics isn't a means of "perfecting" mankind, simply creating a healthier genetic pool.  I agree that people should be judged as individuals.

The whole "people should be judged as individuals" is a modern con. If there's a town that supports pirates, kill it with fire -- don't waste time trying to find the one orphan who you can judge as good.

Even better, don't judge. Just do what is logical and do not assign a justification -- this is what modern people call "judgment" -- to it.

Nothing can be perfected. There is no utopia. Humankind is awash in idiots, and they're idiots because the design of their brain is less optimized. Kill them, don't judge them, and move on.

Race is a separate topic that requires a more mature, studied audience than you'll find at a metal forum. Sorry, 'tis true.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 09, 2009, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: ASBO
The whole "people should be judged as individuals" is a modern con. If there's a town that supports pirates, kill it with fire -- don't waste time trying to find the one orphan who you can judge as good.

I should clarify that I was only speaking in terms of genetics/biology.  What you describe is judging groups of people based on their values or actions, which I'm perfectly fine with.  For example, I have no problem seeking to "remove" Communists or child molesters from society without judging them on an individual basis.

Quote from: ASBO
Even better, don't judge. Just do what is logical and do not assign a justification -- this is what modern people call "judgment" -- to it.

Can't logic be viewed as a form of justification?

Quote from: ASBO
Nothing can be perfected. There is no utopia. Humankind is awash in idiots, and they're idiots because the design of their brain is less optimized. Kill them, don't judge them, and move on.

This is basically my position, with the noted exception that I prefer the use of sterilization and abortion for genetic undesirables and reserve execution for criminals.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 10, 2009, 01:22:15 AM
This is basically my position, with the noted exception that I prefer the use of sterilization and abortion for genetic undesirables and reserve execution for criminals.
And how you define someone "undesirable"?

If you support eliminating retards before birth, I agree with that.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 10, 2009, 01:57:54 AM
This is basically my position, with the noted exception that I prefer the use of sterilization and abortion for genetic undesirables and reserve execution for criminals.
And how you define someone "undesirable"?

If you support eliminating retards before birth, I agree with that.

Yes, I support aborting the retarded and physically deformed.  Sterilization (which does not necessarily have to be coercive) would be for people who are very stupid, parasitic, or possibly people who are carriers of genetic disorders.

Cigno

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 10, 2009, 02:00:44 AM

The whole "people should be judged as individuals" is a modern con. If there's a town that supports pirates, kill it with fire -- don't waste time trying to find the one orphan who you can judge as good.

It reminds me that ol' biblical adventure about Sodom and Gomorrah.

Dear N0thing: I don't know if it has been already suggested to you, but you should pay attention to ASBO's lies (in his signature of course, ha ha)

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 10, 2009, 01:57:45 PM

Yes, I support aborting the retarded and physically deformed.  Sterilization (which does not necessarily have to be coercive) would be for people who are very stupid, parasitic, or possibly people who are carriers of genetic disorders.

I'm in support of this too, in most cases.  Why have a person who is a born paraplegic or a severe schizophrenic go through life and suffer every day?  It's inhumane.  I know if I couldn't care for myself I would want to be euthanized. 

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 11, 2009, 04:05:13 PM
Like a moth to a flame they come...

Cigno

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 11, 2009, 10:44:51 PM
Athyrio:

There's no "good" or "evil" or if you wish it in secularized terms, "right" or "wrong". There's cause and effect, as simply as that. Check this if you want to see cause and effect, nothing else.
 
If you understand it, that ambiguity will fade away.  Finally, transcende it's a higher pleasure than hedonist escapism; this alone is an excellent reason to care.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
January 12, 2009, 12:30:38 AM
This only leaves the “very superior” intelligence category, or roughly 10% of the population. But why stop there?

Some eco-extremists, writers and academics have suggested half a billion humans on Earth as an ideal quantity for sustainable modern + conservationist societies worldwide. That ten percent would get us down to 660 million or so - pretty close. So, the 120 and above did not originate with the local Throne group, nor is there only one factor considered for it. There are two profound considerations for the 500 million population ideal: quality of human society and quality of natural environment.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
July 06, 2009, 07:00:45 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22875

Interesting article analyzing the scope of the Holocaust and other mass killings.

These seem unproductive to me. I'd return every population to its native land, then cull the under-120s, and then start knocking off people who are bad in character.

We only need a half-billion people and that would do it. A half-billion smart, morally alert, kind when required and aggressive and cruel when required, people.

Beats the 6 billion mostly morons we have now.

The Germans had an interesting idea: purge the world of screwups. I think they went about it the wrong way with Jews and Gypsies, who should have been shipped to their ancestral/genetic-bonded lands, but I have no problem with their euthanizing of tards, criminals and overpopulated Eurasian countries.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
July 06, 2009, 06:58:42 PM
I'm seeing a trend here. Everytime a forum troll posts an hyperbole or insults some demographic portion, the over-socialized types of the board feel upset.

Blame Christ, the founder of humanist extremism and egalitarianism.

Quote
Grow up. Most of you are too smart for that behavior.

Agreed. The immature of all ages believe anyone can play. The mature have come to learn not everyone can be included and if they are, the game gets dumber and stakes devalued.

Re: The 'morons' and their role in society
July 08, 2009, 01:24:44 AM
The mature have come to learn not everyone can be included and if they are, the game gets dumber and stakes devalued.

Nature is like a giant series of sieves, picking only the finest and most uniform shapes for its most delicate purposes.

People freak out because this is anti-inclusive, meaning that is affirms that not everyone can be included, and each person fears they would be the one left behind.

A frequent exchange:

Person 1: "We need to think the herd and keep our best."
Person 2: "You first!" or "What if someone decides you're not the best?"

The answer is that as long as the principle is applied, the result will be good, regardless of its impact on us as individuals.

The brat inside every human wants to deny that and keep on pretending they're a king in their apartment, with their cubicle job, and wide-screen TV (with buckets of video games and DVDs so they can pretend they're really informed and wise).