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Is vegetarianism healthy?

Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 12, 2009, 04:33:37 PM
This is a bit off topic, but the idea of vegetarianism being healthier is a myth. Here's some reading to do on the subject:

http://westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html


ken

Is meat-eating unhealthy?
January 12, 2009, 10:56:17 PM
This is a bit off topic, but the idea of vegetarianism being healthier is a myth. Here's some reading to do on the subject:

http://westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html

That site is incredibly stupid and filled with right wing herd rhetoric, for a site claiming to be based around the science of nutrition. Read Myth #15 first, and you wont need to read any more. Apparantly eating animals isnt 'inhumane' (a very ambigious and diplomatic word). And then it tells us that "agriculture, which involves both the clearance of land to plant crops and the protection and maintenance of those crops, results in many animal deaths (133). The belief, therefore, that "becoming vegetarians" will somehow spare animals from dying is one with no foundation in fact."

This coming from a nutrition website? Its comparable to THIS    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill


Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 14, 2009, 01:06:51 AM
entirely meat-based diets can be perfectly healthy, so long as one eats more than just the muscle - which is the only thing most Westerners eat.

Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 14, 2009, 02:52:44 AM
entirely meat-based diets can be perfectly healthy, so long as one eats more than just the muscle - which is the only thing most Westerners eat.

Really?  I was unaware of this, I was under the impression that meat lacks dietary fiber completely, for example.

Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 14, 2009, 03:26:38 AM
entirely meat-based diets can be perfectly healthy, so long as one eats more than just the muscle - which is the only thing most Westerners eat.

Really?  I was unaware of this, I was under the impression that meat lacks dietary fiber completely, for example.

It does, unless for some reason you're consuming the contents of the animal's digestive tract.

I'd like to hear the theory behind this. Might you(istaros) be using eskimos as an example?

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong or unhealthy about eating meat. The quality of the meat though is entirely dependent on the health of the animal before it was killed. That has been said and should be obvious, but it still surprises me how many think it's irrelevant.

I respect the Mahabharata but disagree with it here, partly due to what DMBM said. Veganism these days operates more like a moral cult than anything concerned with nutritional health.

ken

Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 14, 2009, 04:24:42 AM

I respect the Mahabharata but disagree with it here, partly due to what DMBM said. Veganism these days operates more like a moral cult than anything concerned with nutritional health.


Thats the second post in a row of yours I have read with the word moral used as a derogatory term. Some people care about the suffering of animals-wimpy moralistic cult!

Anyway, nobody is going to learn anything if the forum moderaters keep deleting everything that doesn't adhere to the ANUS code.

Do your own research, most books that you find in a library that are fifteen or twenty years old are unbiased. A strict vegan diet is the healthiest in existence.

Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 14, 2009, 04:56:49 AM

I respect the Mahabharata but disagree with it here, partly due to what DMBM said. Veganism these days operates more like a moral cult than anything concerned with nutritional health.


Thats the second post in a row of yours I have read with the word moral used as a derogatory term. Some people care about the suffering of animals-wimpy moralistic cult!

Anyway, nobody is going to learn anything if the forum moderaters keep deleting everything that doesn't adhere to the ANUS code.

Do your own research, most books that you find in a library that are fifteen or twenty years old are unbiased. A strict vegan diet is the healthiest in existence.

You're incorrect about veganism being healthy, at all. It's devoid in vitamin B-12. The only complete protein from a plant  is soy, which has many drawbacks. Besides, soy is so low in two essential amino acids that it can not be considered a good source for them. Also, true vitamin A comes only from animal products. The plant form are carotenes, which have to be converted to retinol. There is evidence that the consumption of animal fat with carotene rich foods helps to maximize conversions. A strict vegan diet would be fairly low in vitamin A over all for this reason. Also, if you've read Weston A. Price's book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, in which he studied isolated, "primitive" groups across the globes, you'd have learned that no population studied was 100% vegetarian. The healthiest populations got a lot of their food from the ocean, and ate a mixed diet of animal foods and plant based foods. The least healthy relied mostly on plants for their diet, however. The vegan diet is a product of modern insanity, and is antithetical to survival.

Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 14, 2009, 01:26:25 PM
Anyway, nobody is going to learn anything if the forum moderaters keep deleting everything that doesn't adhere to the ANUS code.

Nothing has been deleted here.  Thanks for derailing another thread with paranoid accusations.

Re: Is meat-eating unhealthy?
January 14, 2009, 10:40:27 PM
This is a bit off topic, but the idea of vegetarianism being healthier is a myth. Here's some reading to do on the subject:

http://westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html

That site is incredibly stupid and filled with right wing herd rhetoric, for a site claiming to be based around the science of nutrition. Read Myth #15 first, and you wont need to read any more. Apparantly eating animals isnt 'inhumane' (a very ambigious and diplomatic word). And then it tells us that "agriculture, which involves both the clearance of land to plant crops and the protection and maintenance of those crops, results in many animal deaths (133). The belief, therefore, that "becoming vegetarians" will somehow spare animals from dying is one with no foundation in fact."

This coming from a nutrition website? Its comparable to THIS    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill



Factory Farming relates to agriculture and not just animal farming. It's common sense that if all that land is cleared, then habitat for indigenous animals is lost. Other than that, what else did you find wrong during your certainly extensive exploration of this website? I agree that we should be raising animals for slaughter in more "humane" ways, and I am, as well as this website, against the practices of factory farms. It's no reason to stop eating meat, however. A couple of hippie vegans throwing up their hands and saying that they won't eat anything that comes from an animal won't change the system. Other than that, what specifically is wrong with this website I linked to? And please respond to my other rebuttal a few posts up. If that information is false, then you should easily refute it.

Re: Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 14, 2009, 11:44:59 PM
How can veganism possibly be healthy when it goes contrary to how nature has shaped humans (hominids) for millions of years? You think paleolithic people made all those spearpoints and arrowheads so they could hunt plants? You think acheulean axehead scrapings on bones were used to keep tallies? I'd say the opposite is true: soy, a cultivated crop, and the agriculture necessary for its cultivation are very recent phenomenons and limiting your diet to something that is extraneous to the natural development of mankind is folly.

Re: Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 15, 2009, 01:52:46 AM
How can veganism possibly be healthy when it goes contrary to how nature has shaped humans (hominids) for millions of years? You think paleolithic people made all those spearpoints and arrowheads so they could hunt plants? You think acheulean axehead scrapings on bones were used to keep tallies? I'd say the opposite is true: soy, a cultivated crop, and the agriculture necessary for its cultivation are very recent phenomenons and limiting your diet to something that is extraneous to the natural development of mankind is folly.

There was in fact a wide-spread decline in health with agriculture, because of the high grain diet, and scarcity of meat, as such people lacking many of the necessary nutrients.  On the other hand, paleolithic people did not live on meat alone, and in comparison perhaps to roots, tubers, berries, and nuts, a smaller amount of meat.

Re: Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 15, 2009, 02:53:55 AM

There was in fact a wide-spread decline in health with agriculture, because of the high grain diet, and scarcity of meat, as such people lacking many of the necessary nutrients.  On the other hand, paleolithic people did not live on meat alone, and in comparison perhaps to roots, tubers, berries, and nuts, a smaller amount of meat.

That's what I read as well and I was going to mention this, but for the sake of brevity didn't. I think Jared Diamond stated in either Guns Germs & Steel or one of his articles that the first farmers adopted farming not because it was preferable but out of necessity, but that doesn't mean that modern people in industrial society are as malnourished as the earliest farmers were. Actually, I've also read and heard that in North America (and perhaps worldwide?), the whole agribusiness food chain has at its roots two plants, corn and soybeans, which are used not just as a crop as animal feed and recycled as fertilizer. So in essence we modern people obtain all our nutrition from corn.

Re: Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 15, 2009, 02:55:38 AM
Throughout high school and my many changing beliefs, especially those of Eastern origin, I chose to take the vegan path which lasted near 4 years.  Not only did I lose 15 pounds despite keeping close watches on getting sufficient nutrients, but it made me feel like complete shit.  Soy based diets are especially bad for men.  It is very high in estrogen, many men whom ate soy based diets for extended periods have even claimed to develop some excessive fat deposits on their breasts.  Hold onto your manhood (quite literally), eat a steak from organic/local farmers, and avoid yet another hipster movement.

Re: Is vegetarianism healthy?
January 15, 2009, 03:54:21 AM
Throughout high school and my many changing beliefs, especially those of Eastern origin, I chose to take the vegan path which lasted near 4 years.  Not only did I lose 15 pounds despite keeping close watches on getting sufficient nutrients, but it made me feel like complete shit.  Soy based diets are especially bad for men.  It is very high in estrogen, many men whom ate soy based diets for extended periods have even claimed to develop some excessive fat deposits on their breasts.  Hold onto your manhood (quite literally), eat a steak from organic/local farmers, and avoid yet another hipster movement.

I've also heard the soy protein is not good for muscular development, which would make sense given the estrogen.  Sound advice on the last bit, eating local food is probably better ecologically than any radical vegan/vegetarian diet.