How to get ANUS publically accepted

[ASBO]

As most of you may know, I wander around the net looking for metal people with whom to connect. I find some interesting ones.

ANUS faces an uphill battle in that in order to influence metal itself, it needs to be bigger and more powerful and have more people visit it. The problem is that, like ancient people, people here believe in plainly speaking the truth, but those who we'd like to have among us are accustomed to "social reality," where people first say something to please others and only secondarily care if it has truth value.

But if we care about getting truth established, we need to learn to speak this language.

Here's the dialogue:

1.

I doubt they've done anything to you. Are you just in violent disagreement? It seems like it goes farther than that with you. WHy?

For the reasons already stated on the forum.  I understand metal is very much appreciated by A.N.U.S., but I have seen the members berate others over the years for differring opinions and that doesn't sit well with me, including Prozak.  I've been on the internet since '96 - '97 and have witnessed a lot of the trolling and propaganda that comes from that social club.

For example, within the last month's time, a person from A.N.U.S. trolled this very forum just to inform everyone that someone began a thread who hates the Braveboard's members.  Maturity at its finest.

Rising above mediocrity is one thing, but when one has to kick others in order to have the appearance of standing taller, that irks me.

2.

No, I'm not attempting to kick others but rather put them in their place.  I appreciate differring opinions, but the entire "bad metal and bad thinking" idea doesn't sit well with me, either.  As I've stated elsewhere, raising one's opinion to the level of Universal Law is pointless where personal preference is concerned.  There is no way to prove through scientific method what is "good" and what is "bad".  It's all opinions and nothing more.

And no, I have not read that book.

Isn't that what you're attempting to do? They dislike some things, and like others, and I don't think assuming that one forum thread represents the view of all ANUS members is accurate.

Come try us out. There are differing opinions here and all are welcome. What is disliked is bad metal and bad thinking, which probably deserves a good kick in the pants.

I grant you that some of us have been too aggressive about this in the past, but we're doing our best to fix that, and to keep the forum members who do this under control.

http://www.anus.com/metal/hall

Thank you for being honest. Of all the things that could save humanity from itself, honesty is the one. Have you read the book "Radical Honesty" by Brad Blanton?

...some good points raised here. I hope this individual will come join us, but it's hard for others to come here, because they'll get negative feedback from their peer groups on other forums, and most people use the internet and metal to socialize primarily. But people should read this with an open mind and see what each of us can do to make ANUS more accessible without losing its truthfulness.

[wood]

Yeah, I've noticed alot of people know about ANUS and disagree/dislike it, then they go out of their way to bring it up and the site.

Also, here is a post I made at the Metal-Archives in a "other metal forums" thread and the random negative statement received.

bwood wrote:
www.anus.com is a great site for those interested in the roots of metal, the forums are full of topics on philosophy, music theory, and metal in general.

however, if intelligent discussion of the world around you and how it relates to the spirit of metal is not your thing, you might not like it. 


Nolan_B wrote:
You guys act like you own the genre of metal.

 
bwood wrote:
While I can't speak for ANUS, I can say it's true that music which is advocated there has been rigorously critiqued and is the best that the death and black metal genre has to offer.

No one at ANUS owns metal, but the people who run the site lived through metals birth so they are defensive and critical of anything that falls short of the best.

[Trauco]

This site can and should get more popular, but it's really up to the people here improving certain behaviours.

Here's some suggestions on how we can improve and help spread knowledge of this site. All of it IMHO, of course:

- The problem with this forum: too many people trying to be thinkers, not enough warriors. I'll admit it myself, I'm no philosopher. I'm rather the kind of person who acts on what other people have pondered. I bet most of us here are that type.

- Drop the false elitism. You know something that most people don't, and you use your time more efficiently because of that. Congratulations. Now stop patting yourself in the back for knowing those things. Before that, you were just like the other "morons".

- Drop the ego. Ancient people succeeded in most of what they put their minds on because they recognized that the goal to follow is more important that the individual, and most worked with that in mind. When a person is more focused on the collective goal than in himself, he can extract real joy on watching that goal come to fruition. We really need to interiorize that frame of mind unto ourselves, as the "me, me, me" mentality is the most pervasive modern behaviour I see here.

- Internet forums are good to visit every once in a while and get and share some info. They are not to spend all day on them. Yes, I'm including this one. Forums can be addictive, but they are also huge wastes of time where pointless discussions can take place. Recognize what forums are good for (data gathering and propaganda) and use them accordingly.

- Following with the previous: spend less time in these forums bickering over trivial bullshit and focus on learning and asimilating the most important tenets here, here and whatever main ideas you can extract from here. Then apply those tenets to your daily life. Get some shit done there just to see how well those principles work, and then come back to the net, and influence people in forums through your actions, not words. If some band sucks, say so without fear, and explain why. Some people are going to go ape. Ignore them. You have truth on your side, why getting into arguments with people living in social illusion? Before you know it, the smartest, yet least experienced ones will follow you, because people instinctively follow the one who shows more experience and character than the rest.

- Propagandize, but lay-off some of the trolling and the pranks. I'm thinking specially of the Chuck Shuldiner-AIDS thing. Instead, take a look to the above links again. People should know ANUS mainly for those, not for its pranks, amusing as they are.

[K. Sear]

From what I have seen, the majority of criticism directed at ANUS stems from the message board, as well as the antics perpetrated at other message boards, and not the site proper.  Frankly, if some way could be developed to completely disassociate the two, it would likely do much to improve the "respectability" of ANUS.

While it's possible to come up with ways to improve message boards, it unfortunately seems that the only way to keep them from degenerating into banality is to either exercise totalitarian control over the discussion content or allow the board to function only as a database (ie. no discussion at all).   Neither option seems satisfactory.  By keeping the two separate, the project of building ANUS would not have to be hampered by the inevitable difficulties of message board kids and pseudo-intellectuals.

[Hrafn]

If you want people to take us seriously, get rid of stuff like this: http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,5131.0.html

I swear to god, for every quality discussion on metal we have one childish, useless rant about stuff noone cares about. Why would I want to read about Steve Jobs having AIDS on a metal forum? Yeah, I get it, it's about the *dhurr* Macs are stupid!! *dhurr* philosophy that seems to be oh so important for some reason.

[Devamitra]

If you want people to take us seriously, get rid of stuff like this: http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,5131.0.html

I guess it boils down to ANUS eluding a simple definition; personally I don't give a shit about trolling but people who want ANUS to lay off the pranks basically want to change ANUS to a different type of site and community.

That would possibly drive away many people not participating in metal discussions here but who are "fans" of ANUS as a unique Internet phenomenon and supporters of the philosophy in their own corners. That would also possibly attract more useless egomaniacs and Internet warriors who could latch onto an "important", "serious" site.

The challenge of ANUS is to face site and messageboard visitors who were raised by the Internet of the new millennium. The challenge of people visiting ANUS is to stop being so judgemental and appreciate it as it is: a unique combination of philosophy, metal critique and blasphemy against religion, Mac use and other possibly very tangential topics. My challenge is to stay out of useless bickering which I've had my share of in 15 years of Internet use and help wherever I can to get things moving, provide information and irritate the posers.

[kontinual]

CORRUPT.org was to have a more popular mainstream site which speards the ideas of ANUS. Isn't that true?

CORRUPT.org was/is the "political" manifestation of ANUS, but I think what we are mostly discussing here is moving ANUS into the mainstream as a site of popular metal authority, one that is able to shape the dialog on metal going forward.

We should all be for spreading ANUS wherever we can.

[death metal black metal]

I always felt like one of the purposes of CORRUPT.org was to have a more popular mainstream site which speards the ideas of ANUS. Isn't that true?

Yes, but ANUS is several sites:

(1) Nihilism and Parallelism
(2) Heavy Metal

And then there's several sections supporting the nihilism part, including staff and tribes.

Here, we're talking about ANUS/DLA, which is only http://www.anus.com/metal and below.

I found out, hilariously, that many places list us as a HATE SITE for the Altar of Unholy Blasphemy.

I think ANUS people tend to offend others wherever they go by being somewhat high-handed; ANUS people feel that, because their argument is right, the proles shouldn't trifle with the method with which it is delivered. They are correct in theory but incorrect in actuality, because in this disordered and failing time we need to reach the people who can understand us.

[scourge]

I found out, hilariously, that many places list us as a HATE SITE for the Altar of Unholy Blasphemy.

I looked into this and found some outside opinions.

valid concern:

Is this stuff really for anything or just against something.

but, mistaken:

If a person really wants to know what is wrong with today's Christian Church and leadership, ask a Church Leader.

http://current.com/items/89177676/the_altar_of_unholy_blasphemy_the_complaint_against_jehovah_the_judeo_christian_deity.htm

What? Ask church leadership what is wrong with themselves because they know their system better than anyone. Why then do they fail to act? Maybe church leadership is satisfied and complacent; I.E. they're fine, in their view. Hypothesis: they shirk taking responsibility for leadership and their own system's failure by blaming the devil, worldly people, heavy metal etc. I.E. in denial.

garbled site review:

The Altar of Unholy Blasphemy uses apostate technologies and blasphemy to destroy Judeo-Christian moralism and judgmentalism, favoring transcendental blasphemy with unrepentant apostasy as the fist of Satanism as violent heresy in the face of insane religions dominating the world with their weakness.

http://www.einet.net/review/48775-624574/Altar_of_Unholy_Blasphemy_Heretical_Degradation_of_The_Christian_Lord_From_the_Feral_Will_of.htm

Perhaps this is what happened with metal as well. Most people don't "get it", or only clearly perceive the parts that are not garbled by the personal interpretive layers they cling to. The drive for broad exposure might then work best by thinking of a trawler at sea. You cast a large net knowing that most of the catch will need to be thrown out / ignored, but keep / speak to only the best few within the mass.

[N0thing]

Yeah, I've noticed alot of people know about ANUS and disagree/dislike it, then they go out of their way to bring it up and the site.

Also, here is a post I made at the Metal-Archives in a "other metal forums" thread and the random negative statement received.

bwood wrote:
www.anus.com is a great site for those interested in the roots of metal, the forums are full of topics on philosophy, music theory, and metal in general.

however, if intelligent discussion of the world around you and how it relates to the spirit of metal is not your thing, you might not like it. 


Nolan_B wrote:
You guys act like you own the genre of metal.

 
bwood wrote:
While I can't speak for ANUS, I can say it's true that music which is advocated there has been rigorously critiqued and is the best that the death and black metal genre has to offer.

No one at ANUS owns metal, but the people who run the site lived through metals birth so they are defensive and critical of anything that falls short of the best.

I think we need to actively promote good music as well. Go onto "metal" forums, and show them what good music is, without coming out and saying who we are. I have also noticed many "metal" forums have large leftist politic sections. It wouldn't hurt to go spread good ideas there.

[Cigno]

If something has to change it's content: avoid that crappy trolling about Macs and Chucks. What most people don't realize is that ANUS, or what it represents, it's the logical result of Heavy Metal. A serious study in the historical context of metal proves all. So, instead of negative logic, spread History

[N0thing]

I don't like the whole Chuck AIDS thing. I like Death.
I do find the Mac ones humorous though. Macs are the chosen computer of the hipster.

[Heydrich]

I don't like the whole Chuck AIDS thing. I like Death.

This is why I suggested a broader explanation in the "DLA - The Book" project, of why ANUS takes the stance it does. Many of us here actually like Death...at least some early Death(though their "'importance" may be vastly overstated on the whole). Most however, are also fully familiar with the fact that Shuldiner was a scumbag to many, many people in the Metal world, including some who were in Death at one point or another. The guy's reputation as a dickhead goes back over twenty years - I heard it from Massacre members in 1987!! Thus, his posthumous deification is just too much for many to take - it is phoney, nauseating, undeserved and entirely out of step with Death Metal proper! That's my take anyway...I don't pretend to speak for the site.

[Trauco]

The point I tried to made with my post was not to split the forum from the main site, or even to dispose of humour altogether...God forbid if ANUS ever turns into an organization of tight-arses.

My point is to change the image of the ANUS supporter from the pseudo-elitist undesirable to the self-confident connoiseur worthy of admiration instead of scorn. As the impression outsiders have of the site relies much on the action of those supporters on forums, that change would certainly boost up the respect others may have of ANUS, not to mention it would attract newer people to the site if next to your well-informed posts you have an ANUS link in your sig or refer once in a while to certain articles from the DLA.

As for the Chuck thing, my stance that pranks should be left to a second place still stands, but for the sake of not derailing this thread I suggest we leave the matter well alone.

[Humanicide]

This is why I suggested a broader explanation in the "DLA - The Book" project, of why ANUS takes the stance it does. Many of us here actually like Death...at least some early Death(though their "'importance" may be vastly overstated on the whole). Most however, are also fully familiar with the fact that Shuldiner was a scumbag to many, many people in the Metal world, including some who were in Death at one point or another. The guy's reputation as a dickhead goes back over twenty years - I heard it from Massacre members in 1987!! Thus, his posthumous deification is just too much for many to take - it is phoney, nauseating, undeserved and entirely out of step with Death Metal proper! That's my take anyway...I don't pretend to speak for the site.

That sums up my feelings entirely.  (minus the part about hearing it from band members)