Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Metal culture and "psychosis"

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 27, 2009, 07:25:26 PM
For purposes of this discussion, metal is like guns. Guns don't kill people and metal doesn't cause psychosis. I've also heard that nazism, satanism, being a dictator and having wealth cause psychosis. Nonsense. The crazy person comes first, then attaches themselves to a symbol or tool that seems to them able to magnify their own ability to project willpower or forcefulness onto the external.

We have easy access to a great volume of information today, so it is more commonplace than ever before to see reports about psychos all over the world. Sometimes we hear they have a hobby or interest that happens to contain some extreme elements. This is coincidental to the extreme behaviour of the psycho, but it sounds like a more sensational news report for its inclusion. This is why we never hear questions about shoes, television, cars and houses causing psychosis. There is nothing considered extreme or powerful or evil about such objects, yet every other psycho uses them.
”The Revolution ends by devouring its own children” – Jacques Mallet du Pan, 1793

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 27, 2009, 08:01:00 PM
Guns are certainly direct facilitators of fatal violence; you can't really say the same thing about shoes, unless you use your stiletto heels to puncture someone's throat. The thing is, shoes can be used for a broad range of purposes from trudging through sewage to just fashion, guns have one implicit function: shooting a projectile at a target. They maximize the destructive potential of a psycho much more than shoes. I think it's the same with metal and ideas in general. It's why people are so concerned with "not filling his head with bad ideas". Simple exposure to certain thoughts and ideas can potentially affect a person's behaviour, depending on how susceptible they are, especially if these are repeated and reinforced messages. Try calling Mike Tyson a faggot to his face versus saying "Hi" and see what reaction that provokes.

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 27, 2009, 08:39:13 PM
Guns are certainly direct facilitators of fatal violence;

No gun was ever known to decide to kill someone. A hammer is quite an excellent facilitator of violence, but nobody claims possession of a hammer causes a psycho to kill someone. You're looking at what it is expected to do, not what has been done with it, but nonetheless conflating the two. Scary object = causes horrible action? Ridiculous.

The thing is, shoes can be used for a broad range of purposes from trudging through sewage to just fashion, guns have one implicit function: shooting a projectile at a target. They maximize the destructive potential of a psycho much more than shoes.

I said as much, yet guns still don't make people psychos, nor does metal, less of a direct facilitator, make psychos. A person is already messed up, then attaches themselves to zero or more of what they must think represent crazy enhancers: weapons, tools, objects, goat buggery, racism. It's stupid and yes crazy, but worse is when the ostensibly smart and sane get this all confused after viewing some sensationalist media report.
”The Revolution ends by devouring its own children” – Jacques Mallet du Pan, 1793

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 27, 2009, 09:22:17 PM
That's like saying "Bullying someone constantly won't make him a psycho. He was already a psycho so that's why he shot up the school." You either missed or ignored the point of what I was trying to say. In my view, "you are what you eat", mentally. I find it weird how some people think metal can affect you positively, but not also negatively. It's the same thing with peoples' general attitudes about attitudes TV here; it has the power to rot your mind, it's useless and stupid, it turns you into a dullard, but heaven forbid metal should act as a catalyst propelling someone to violence when it is, in fact, violent, dark and anti-social music.

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 27, 2009, 10:05:15 PM
It's the same thing with peoples' general attitudes about attitudes TV here; it has the power to rot your mind, it's useless and stupid, it turns you into a dullard, but heaven forbid metal should act as a catalyst propelling someone to violence when it is, in fact, violent, dark and anti-social music.

Haha, and good thing it is.  No one has argued metal has a lack of violence associated with it.  Your general bent seems to be that violence is bad, period.  If this is so, why are you bothering with metal?  Metal glorifies violence, and sanctifies it as having a place in the world.

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 27, 2009, 10:19:21 PM
I don't think "the ugly" in life is necessary any more than stillbirth, AIDS and getting struck by lightning are necessary. This reminds me of a quote attributed to General Omar Bradley, which goes, "Set your course by the stars, not by the lights of every passing ship”. Observing the ugly for its own sake is like setting staring into a pool of diarrhea. Personally, rather than spending my free time staring into a pile of shit I'd rather look at something inspiring, meaningful or at least aesthetically beautiful.

"Blessed Are The Sick".  Ponder upon that for a moment.  I find AIDS very necessary by the way.

With regard to war, I don't think it's ugly as a whole but it is necessary, and as a whole metal is pretty ambivalent to it. Bands like Bolt Thrower have thundering, glorious-sounding music but when you read their lyrics they're more about the horrors of war and criticizing it. Black Metal bands frequently whine about "pagan genocides" at the hands of christians or whatever but then lament the passing of the volatile "warrior era", when such acts were fair game. The crusades are vilified but paint a Thor's hammer on it and suddenly everyone's cheering as vikings butcher monks on the altar. Stupid.

"In Analyzing
I learn
To Consume
The Sphere
Of Immense Power
And To
Become Immortal
Darkness Hate and Winter
Rules the Earth when I Return
War
Between Races
A Goal Is Reached
Chaos, Hate"

Ring a bell?  Does not quite sound like ambivalence to me.

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 27, 2009, 10:25:13 PM
I don't think "the ugly" in life is necessary any more than stillbirth, AIDS and getting struck by lightning are necessary. This reminds me of a quote attributed to General Omar Bradley, which goes, "Set your course by the stars, not by the lights of every passing ship”. Observing the ugly for its own sake is like setting staring into a pool of diarrhea. Personally, rather than spending my free time staring into a pile of shit I'd rather look at something inspiring, meaningful or at least aesthetically beautiful.

Quote
Metal reaffirms that reality does exist, despite our best efforts to hide from it, that the ugly and the beautiful are necessary parts to life, that death is part of life. It glorifies this cycle.

I guess that's one way to interpret it. Most metal is just venting, venting that is irrelevant to me. What do I give a shit if your neighbour butchered his wife (Skin Her Alive), some nutcase thought he heard voices from God and went on a killing spree (Lunatic of God's Creation), or that you're pissed off at christianity (which I learned more about from metal than anywhere else)? Not worth my time.

With regard to war, I don't think it's ugly as a whole but it is necessary, and as a whole metal is pretty ambivalent to it. Bands like Bolt Thrower have thundering, glorious-sounding music but when you read their lyrics they're more about the horrors of war and criticizing it. Black Metal bands frequently whine about "pagan genocides" at the hands of christians or whatever but then lament the passing of the volatile "warrior era", when such acts were fair game. The crusades are vilified but paint a Thor's hammer on it and suddenly everyone's cheering as vikings butcher monks on the altar. Stupid.

I am not sure if you have read William Blake's "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell," but if not, you should.

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 28, 2009, 12:35:09 AM
That's like saying "Bullying someone constantly won't make him a psycho. He was already a psycho so that's why he shot up the school."

Wrong on two counts. Bullying does not automatically make people psychos. It can make them passive and cowardly. It can have no effect as they learn to cope. Why? Because we are born with brains wired to take various adaptive paths of reaction according to given external stressors and stimuli. Everyone isn't born to become a predictable psycho given the same stressor. Some people are. Furthermore, listening to metal doesn't seem remotely similar to someone bullying our hypothetical psycho. It is aggressive sound, but our hypothetical psycho in this thread chooses to listen to it. Your hypothetical psycho is not choosing bullying.

In my view, "you are what you eat", mentally. I find it weird how some people think metal can affect you positively, but not also negatively. It's the same thing with peoples' general attitudes about attitudes TV here; it has the power to rot your mind, it's useless and stupid, it turns you into a dullard, but heaven forbid metal should act as a catalyst propelling someone to violence when it is, in fact, violent, dark and anti-social music.

Not buying it. People are hard wired for determined, yet fairly malleable cerebral perceptions and responses. We should be asking why people come to metal and what results from this interaction, not what metal does to people as if man is a blank slate, which is bunk science.
”The Revolution ends by devouring its own children” – Jacques Mallet du Pan, 1793

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 28, 2009, 08:35:56 AM
I don't think "the ugly" in life is necessary any more than stillbirth, AIDS and getting struck by lightning are necessary. This reminds me of a quote attributed to General Omar Bradley, which goes, "Set your course by the stars, not by the lights of every passing ship”. Observing the ugly for its own sake is like setting staring into a pool of diarrhea. Personally, rather than spending my free time staring into a pile of shit I'd rather look at something inspiring, meaningful or at least aesthetically beautiful.

Stillbirth indicates the mother isn't a reliable way to pass on genes. AIDS helps manage exploding populations. Getting struck by lightning is a good way to enlighten those around you of the the dangers in storms. Steering by the stars is fine, but refusing to look for the lights of passing ships puts you at great risk of colliding with one of them, stupid. Staring at feces isn't necessary, but feces themselves are - and despite our finding of their stench offensive, they remove toxins from our bodies and aid in the growth of vegetation; in at least one culture, they even serve to build homes! We don't care how you'd rather spend your free time. Taking a shit would be more productive than looking at something aesthetically beautiful.

Additionally, shoes, like guns, also have only one implicit function("fashion" is not a function, and even if it is, guns can be used for it as well). And "...it's... not christians that... have some irrealistic fixation with death..." was laughable, since the entirety of Christianity is based on the question of how to address death. Its central figure is a zombie. It's a death cult.
HE WHO REAPS STORMS, SOWS WINDS. HE WHO SOWS WINDS, REAPS STORMS.

"It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of feasting, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this to heart."
-Ecclesiastes 7:2

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
March 30, 2009, 03:35:29 PM
The psychosis the original poster may be describing: negativity. When people are both aggressive and depressed, they look for reasons to declare any possible hope a failure, so they can go back to their compensatory behavior.

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
April 02, 2009, 08:05:00 PM
The psychosis the original poster may be describing: negativity. When people are both aggressive and depressed, they look for reasons to declare any possible hope a failure, so they can go back to their compensatory behavior.

Negativity without something to replace it can definitely be psychotic-like. Is it always the case that without something to replace what one opposes, one will actually embody the very thing they oppose and simply destroy themselves? In my experience, this is how things work. Being AGAINST things rarely succeeds, but to actually BE something which may be in conflict with something else has a fighting chance. Lawful, not anti-crime. Sober, not anti-drug. Healthy, not anti-disease.

Re: Metal culture and "psychosis"
April 02, 2009, 10:30:25 PM
I should note that there is a difference between being "psychotic" and being what people call "a psycho". A psychotic person's experience of reality is in conflict with the reality of those around him. Just because someone goes and kills a bunch of people doesn't mean that his experience of reality is different; he might just be extremely angry and full of hate. A psychosis may be completely disorganized, as when someone thinks they're surrounded by enemies (they may have a point), that complete strangers want to kill them (again, they may have a point), that they're actually characters from TV shows (well, that's a little silly), etc., or it may be organized and presented to others as reality in the case of someone who doesn't have fear and can persuade others to his point of view, such as a religious leader.