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On watching the metal disaster play out

On watching the metal disaster play out
March 01, 2009, 02:39:31 PM
When metal is between generations, it always falls back to its roots as loud angry rock for people who have basically never found a direction in life and want it to be someone else's fault.

Those people, called Crowdists, make any genre into generic crap because they're trying to use it as a means toward justifying themselves, so the pander and avoid any clear direction because they have no direction, and having direction is offensive to those without direction. That's why we have nu-metal (hip-hop, alternative and metal) and metalcore (post-punk and technical death metal) which are essentially carnival music, aiming to distract with radical diversity because it has no goal or anything to communicate except "it's not my fault, I'm horny and stoned and life sucks."

As we see metal magazines fail, bands fail, labels fail, and the large demographic who recently got attracted to metal start to lose attention and drift back toward their indie roots, people around us are going to start bemoaning the death of metal. Don't buy it. It's like a fat man watching the pounds slip away: we need the excess to die so we can move again.

Metal "died" in 1994, got replaced by a bunch of stand-ins from the indie rock and punk movements, and now is losing those fairweather friends so it can resume attracting quality people. Smart, powerful, independent-minded people do not jump into genres full of sheep because they know their music will get lost in the hordes of idiots clamoring for their 15 minutes of pseudo-fame.

Let the "inbetween generation" of metal (1995-2009) die a sordid, HIV-patient death. The rebirth is around the corner.

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 02, 2009, 04:47:00 AM
People might be a little discourage that the first generation (84-95) is shorter than the bad one.

It will be interesting to look at how sterile the old greats seem compared to this new generation.  The new bands will have to be do something quite original and meaningful to be seen in the mess of garbage that we are swimming in.

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 02, 2009, 06:26:33 AM
Metal has been absorbed by the mainstream and the hipsters who latch onto it for the satanik bruthal image are losing the esteem of their peers because of that commodification. Metal is another shade of the status quo thus the burnished elitism of yesteryear has become tarnished and common.  Extreme metal is no longer a viable penis extension so the masses drift to other attractions. With less mediocrity flooding the genre works of merit will doubtless surface, I wouldn't expect a reinvention of form in this period but a return to where metal lost it's steam in the early nineties. A strong scene would need to be reestablished before any quantum leaps in quality occur; A society of competing bands is necessary for growth, the nineties were fantastic for metal because the progenitors were simultaneously competing and learning from each other, they were questing for greatness rather than acceptance. This is why regions had certain a sound associated with them. A Darwinistic framework is essential for the genre to continue. Pondering where metal will go is quite useless without action, it becomes easy to assume metal is dead because a new path isn't visible well lit with guard rails and amenities clearly signed. The cart comes after the horse, one band won't reinvent the genre, but a handful working in conjunction will. 
Rise Arjuna

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 03, 2009, 05:11:41 AM
I am not sure about that.  Would you even notice if metal picked up where it left off.  Every album that comes out seems to be just a mix of anything from the past.  If Blessed Are the Sick revised came out, would you even notice it? 


I don't think it is the same people making metal now who would have made it before.  I think when these people finally come up with something new, it won't be a rebirth or a continuation of metal but something else with the same message maybe.  A new bunch of bands who find modern life empty and find making offensive art that makes one question their life more fulfilling than going through the motions.

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 03, 2009, 02:14:02 PM
I am not sure about that.  Would you even notice if metal picked up where it left off.  Every album that comes out seems to be just a mix of anything from the past.  If Blessed Are the Sick revised came out, would you even notice it?

Any album as good as Blessed Are the Sick would be noticed.

The problem isn't style or technique; the problem is content.

The new stuff could use a brand new style and it would still suck. It has nothing to communicate. It has no organization. It's just music for the sake of music, or random jamming crammed into song form.

The older material was burning with an idea, a vision, and it communicated it and still does. That's what makes it superior, not technique or aesthetics.

Consider this: if I learn the secret of life, and I tell it to you in an ungrammatical monosyllabic sentence, or flowery grammatically-perfect language with classical English diction, does it matter? I'd opt for the latter as much as I could, but not if it would obstruct the meaning.

The meaning/content/design/structure/meme/idea is what matters, not the technique/rendering/aesthetics/incarnation.

Quote
Metal has been dead for 15 years. There's a few quality holdouts but for the most part, it's hobbyist activity designed to make failing lives feel less ill.

rTTp

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 04, 2009, 03:03:00 AM
The older material was burning with an idea, a vision, and it communicated it and still does. That's what makes it superior, not technique or aesthetics.

This statement brims over with truth! Thus, I can still listen to "Infernal Overkill, Melissa, Pleasure To Kill, Legion, Blessed..., In The Sign Of Evil, Onward To Golgotha, Consuming Impulse, Hell Awaits, etc., etc., and it is still fresh and interesting to me - and I've been listening to some of this material regularly for several decades or more...that is staying power, that is superiority. I must confess, I grow weary trying to convince younger acquaintences of the differences between the type of material mentioned above and the myriad "listenable" but altogether unremarkable efforts so many have churned out since. Before stumbling onto this site some years ago, I used to chalk it up to an age or "guess you had to be there" type of thing - but now I am convinced the difference in quality is not only very real, but quite glaring once you become fully aware of it and quantify it beyond opinion, etc. I believe that last part is one reason many despise ANUS...deep down they know you are right...but just cannot bring themselves to admit that so much they have grown-up with or clung to is inherently inferior music - sacred cows die hard. Musical resentment...

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 04, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
Quote from: Heydrich
I believe that last part is one reason many despise ANUS...deep down they know you are right...but just cannot bring themselves to admit that so much they have grown-up with or clung to is inherently inferior music - sacred cows die hard. Musical resentment...

I disagree.  I think this is a cliche argument that's simply the result of projection.  I can't even recall how many times I've heard Fundamentalist Christians tell me that deep down inside I really KNOW that Jesus Christ is god and the only way to salvation.  The more I listen to and debate people, the more I am convinced that most people really are just fucking stupid.  In fact, I believe many people are so stupid that they are literally incapable of grasping certain concepts.  Similar to how a chimpanzee can never be taught calculus.  People on this forum have often made reference to the IQ 120 cut off and the limitations associated with it.  I think ignoring this truth is done at your own peril.  Operating under the assumption that people really do understand what you're saying but just don't want to admit it will only lead to frustration.

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 04, 2009, 08:00:45 PM
JewBob's right, and I'd also add that most of the objection stems not from an intellectual stupidity -IQ points probably aren't too relevant to one's predilection to agreeing with ANUS statements- but more of a meta-stupidity. An unwillingness to let go of what's already been accepted, or go beyond that which has been ingrained. It has less to do with the individual's intelligence than it does with the way these individuals (as a collective) have been accustomed to operating in a society that glorifies the ego. This may just be the same concept worded differently.
HE WHO REAPS STORMS, SOWS WINDS. HE WHO SOWS WINDS, REAPS STORMS.

"It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of feasting, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this to heart."
-Ecclesiastes 7:2

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 04, 2009, 08:28:02 PM
Two points, possibly two different situations:

Biological determinism:

The more I listen to and debate people, the more I am convinced that most people really are just fucking stupid.  In fact, I believe many people are so stupid that they are literally incapable of grasping certain concepts.  Similar to how a chimpanzee can never be taught calculus.  People on this forum have often made reference to the IQ 120 cut off and the limitations associated with it.  I think ignoring this truth is done at your own peril.  Operating under the assumption that people really do understand what you're saying but just don't want to admit it will only lead to frustration.

Social/cultural acclimatization:

meta-stupidity: An unwillingness to let go of what's already been accepted, or go beyond that which has been ingrained. It has less to do with the individual's intelligence than it does with the way these individuals (as a collective) have been accustomed to operating in a society that glorifies the ego.

This nature/nurture split reflects two situations.

Many people are fucking stupid (fs).

Of those that are not fs, most are afraid to violate the rule of the herd.

It's like we've got the opposite of trickle-down (everyone else imitates leaders) in an upward leakage (everyone dumbs themselves down to the LCD).

In addition to that, there's a huge fs population.

I think most people are under-informed more than mis-informed. They're encouraged to interpret reality linearly, use strict categories, etc. etc. -- there are a number of common logical mispaths they take.

We need to reach the under-informed and not stupid -- I think that's about 1/3 of the population. 1/5 are upper middle class, and another fifth or so are middle-class children of teachers, with a smattering of ultra-rich and poor who have a clue and have ended up in their position through the disorganization or fortune or their immediate ancestors.

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 04, 2009, 10:48:49 PM
We'd be healthier just admitting that few things are really worth our time. It's only a handful of metal bands that are great, and we tolerate the rest because we're hoping for more of that "first time I understood Det Som Engang Var" feeling.

We shouldn't blame metal... but should recognize that the people who are "most metal" now are the ones who never understood what the genre was about, and want an identity to join, like a fraternity or liberal politics.
ASBO

“Kurt Cobain was, ladies and gentlemen, a worthless shred of human debris.” - Rush Limbaugh

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 05, 2009, 07:12:42 AM
Quote from: Heydrich
I believe that last part is one reason many despise ANUS...deep down they know you are right...but just cannot bring themselves to admit that so much they have grown-up with or clung to is inherently inferior music - sacred cows die hard. Musical resentment...

I disagree.  I think this is a cliche argument that's simply the result of projection.  I can't even recall how many times I've heard Fundamentalist Christians tell me that deep down inside I really KNOW that Jesus Christ is god and the only way to salvation.  The more I listen to and debate people, the more I am convinced that most people really are just fucking stupid.  In fact, I believe many people are so stupid that they are literally incapable of grasping certain concepts.  Similar to how a chimpanzee can never be taught calculus.  People on this forum have often made reference to the IQ 120 cut off and the limitations associated with it.  I think ignoring this truth is done at your own peril.  Operating under the assumption that people really do understand what you're saying but just don't want to admit it will only lead to frustration.

Think what you like - my experience says otherwise and has nothing whatever to do with projection(note also I simply said "one" reason, not "the only" reason, etc.). Virtually every individual I have encoutered either online or in person who expresses dislike for this site invariably invokes its musical elitism or rigid "intolerance" as reason for condemnation.  When pressed, these same people always struggle to explain why various modern bands are ultimately inferior to, or simply half-baked clones of the genre pioneers or their immediate successors, etc. When cornered they may drag out a few more obscure examples of something modern and worthwhile - which in its relative obscurity only further proves the point. In other words, what I am saying is that many, perhaps most self-styled "metalheads" never really consider the arguments commonly made here for what is high-quality Metal or low-quality Metal and why. This exercise is unpleasant as it forces one to examine the why's and wherefore's of why what they consider worthwhile is indeed worthwhile musically - or otherwise. Most fail spectacularly at this and their frustration is manifested in simple rejection of the site. 


Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 05, 2009, 11:16:24 AM
I've been listening to metal for almost fifteen years right now, and while it is still as important to me as it ever was, the endless debate about the social implications of this music, the various 'cut-off' points for musical eras, the hypothetical 'deadness' of the art form, whether or not album X stands up to the classics, and so on, and so on... is increasingly irrelevant to me.

If you (we) have not yet gotten to the point where you're able to use your own instincts and judgment to decide what music is valuable and what music is not, and if you have not yet discovered how to integrate this art-form into your life, how to understand and trust your own experiences, something is wrong. The people who matter need to learn to do these things with confidence, and the people who don't matter will continue to be irrelevant. I think we give these irrelevant people too much credit and attention when we launch into long examinations of exactly how they've infiltrated and destroyed our art or go off crusading against their inferior offerings. That way lies futility and burn-out frustration. Everything that has happened and is happening to metal was always destined to happen, as it happens to all art and things of value - something brilliant erupts from humanity, is understood and loved by a few, and eventually is diluted/distorted/obscured by the malice or misunderstanding of others. All that really matters is that it served its purpose at the time.

I realize this is to some degree a restatement of things many of us have already grasped and expressed to each other before... The reason why I bother restating it is that I often feel that 'we' (in general - not just those of us posting on ANUS forums) spend far too much time talking about metal in relation to its most base characteristics - those of the purely social sphere. I can't understand how this could be anything other than a sign of our own stagnation and inability to go further/deeper. Why aren't we spending more time exploring metal from a perspective closer to its own essence, i.e, a purely artistic perspective, or a religious perspective? Why aren't we focused on its content?

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 05, 2009, 01:36:37 PM
Quote from: Heydrich
Think what you like - my experience says otherwise and has nothing whatever to do with projection(note also I simply said "one" reason, not "the only" reason, etc.). Virtually every individual I have encoutered either online or in person who expresses dislike for this site invariably invokes its musical elitism or rigid "intolerance" as reason for condemnation.  When pressed, these same people always struggle to explain why various modern bands are ultimately inferior to, or simply half-baked clones of the genre pioneers or their immediate successors, etc. When cornered they may drag out a few more obscure examples of something modern and worthwhile - which in its relative obscurity only further proves the point. In other words, what I am saying is that many, perhaps most self-styled "metalheads" never really consider the arguments commonly made here for what is high-quality Metal or low-quality Metal and why. This exercise is unpleasant as it forces one to examine the why's and wherefore's of why what they consider worthwhile is indeed worthwhile musically - or otherwise. Most fail spectacularly at this and their frustration is manifested in simple rejection of the site.

I think your example actually illustrates my point.  When you debate people about ANUS or metal, they have uninformed opinions.  When you attempt to explain simple truths to them, they have knee-jerk reactions and simply reject what you are saying.  This is where I think you are projecting.  You assume that because you are intelligent enough to grasp the concepts you describe that the other person also can and is rejecting simply to protect the ego.  However, if these people really were intelligent enough to grasp what you say, they wouldn't simply reject it outright.  They would attempt to integrate the truth into their delusions through some compromise position, and/or by attempting to neutralize the implications of said truth as much as they could.  This is how intelligent people maintain delusional worldviews.  The outright rejection of or refusal to acknowledge truth is how stupid people maintain delusional worldviews.

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 05, 2009, 04:15:29 PM



The older material was burning with an idea, a vision, and it communicated it and still does. That's what makes it superior, not technique or aesthetics.



Or, YOU were burning with that idea much more when you were 14-20 years old, and now everything seems somehow...boring. We slow down as we age. Everyone feels it. But metal isn't "slow" music.

Will metal be revived by these types of people? No. Will metal being revived be noticed by these people? Probably not.

Stravinsky said that the only appropriate response or critique to a work of art is another work of art. I think there's some truth to that. So, where are the legions of ANUS bands coming to the rescue? Averse Sefira...can you name 5 more? Are you in any of them?

Re: On watching the metal disaster play out
March 05, 2009, 08:05:05 PM
Or, YOU were burning with that idea much more when you were 14-20 years old, and now everything seems somehow...boring.

I've spent a good deal of time disproving that, actually. You are free to do what you should have done here, which is posted the new classics you imply exist. However, if they can't stand up to an objective standard -- like the best of the past -- I think you need to admit you were wrong, or force yourself into cognitive dissonance.