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Velvet Cacoon Interview

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 11, 2004, 06:12:52 PM
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 As for the Sort Vokter and Demoncy comparisons, I can't even comment.  :o  :-X


Not Sort Vokter, not even just a leeeetle bit?  Yeah the Demoncy connection is, uh,  more tangental...

Creativity/innovation/quality/whatever is more a matter of what they're playing than what device they're playing it on, and what VC's playing has just not floored me with its innovation.  They look good when you're stacking em up against other minimalist black metal bands, but in a larger context I don't think they're nearly that big of a deal.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 11, 2004, 07:00:45 PM
Yeah, the reason I like it is that it's got the same hypnotic and twisted subtlety that Sort Vokter possesses, though it's certainly not *that* good. The worship they're suddenly attracting from all angles is already getting annoying.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 11, 2004, 08:08:32 PM
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Not Sort Vokter, not even just a leeeetle bit?  Yeah the Demoncy connection is, uh,  more tangental...

Creativity/innovation/quality/whatever is more a matter of what they're playing than what device they're playing it on, and what VC's playing has just not floored me with its innovation.  They look good when you're stacking em up against other minimalist black metal bands, but in a larger context I don't think they're nearly that big of a deal.



No doubt Sort Vokter is great, but the sound is a little thin compared to the meaty/bulky sound of "Genevieve". I think "Dextronaut" is a very very close comparison to Sort Vokter, but not "Genevieve". That's just my opinion though.

As you said yourself, it's probably the best to come out in years, so that's gotta be worth something, especially considering their ideology is one that actually makes sense and isn't the same old "Hail bloody nuns raping the crucifix of Goatvalla" which every other band seems to be doing these days.

Their avoidance of the dime-a-dozen usbm circlejerk support squads is refreshing as well.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 12, 2004, 11:02:57 AM
There's many BM albums from the last 5 or 6 years that have more value than anything by Velvet Cacoon methinks, but their music is still rather immersive. The anti-VC bandwagon is just as annoying as the fanboyism.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 12, 2004, 01:39:18 PM
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If all that is replied with is "gimmick and novelty"...

How is the band at fault for internet rumours and speculation? That seems senseless to find any reason to hate them and go with it. The fact that you add these supposed complaints to your arguments makes me think your original argument (about their music) isn't strong enough so it needs to be re-enforced with all these small trivial matters which are caused by fans and internet groupies. Should Varg really be blamed for the loads of children on nazi.org as well? I also don't buy the argument this band has no originality as nobody has yet to name a suitable comparison that draws a direct link. And whose guitar sounds like that? It may not sound like some distorted keyboard or whatever you were expecting, but it certainly sounds original.

Even you admitted this VC is probably the best thing to come out in years. Many people probably agree with you on that. Perhaps this is a case of people wanting to tear down what's on top?  ;D


All right, I smell a pre-existing bias at work here, one which might take a bit of effort to work through, but hey, c'est la vie....

My original argument - concerning the music itself and it's perceived shortcomings stacked against the classics that preceded it - stands, but what you fail to realize is that the case to be made against VC is bigger than "just the music, d00d". They cannot solely be judged by their music alone, as they constantly parrot their ideological stance either a) through their rare interviews (again, driving up the media frenzy through hints and teasers) or b) through their obsessive fanboys and -girls who view them very much messianically in context to the current desert of value to be observed in the black metal scene - something which is now definable by it's fanbase, instead of what it was that created that fanbase, but the broken losers which comprise it still believe that music plays a part in such a judgment - ; if not this, we see the endless trumpetting of their precious "dieselharp" (LOL) as something innovative, whereas the sound achieved by this hypocritical device in no way sets them apart from any other run-of-the-mill BM over-driven production of the current time; you have consistently defended this aspect of their "production" since the beginning of this argument as being something worth lauding, as being something original; the device itself may be, but what it is being used for is not, a point which you missed.

You must understand that we don't exist in vacuums of perception; we are influenced by the opinions and actions of others and by what we tangibly observe - in this, all we are subject to in the case of VC is a mass-marketing push to compensate for their non-existant content; they are the reigning kings of form over function - what the media exposes us to shapes our perception of what we will eventually hear from the band musically. In this case, because they have championed their ideological differences and affected "elitist transendance" above the braindead jockeys riding the tired old Satanic horse into a mass grave, we are thus conditioned to think "wow! they're gonna be great when they finally release somethin'!!1" Where to start the discourse on how titanically stupid this mentality is? I'll leave it for the more mentally aware to trudge through.

I don't even know how to address the irrelevancy of your point concerning nazi.org, let alone the supreme illogic behind your branding of Vikernes as the instigator.

I did name a band that they compare to, in fact directly stole from - Burzum - yet I now understand that you don't hear the similarities because you are judging the music based on production values, not on what is being said. Of course they sound different, but observe the framework of the song construction: one and the same. Production does not a musical statement make, my dear.

I admitted no such thing; reading comprehension is a thing of the past? or are you merely looking for justification for your own point (another example of brainwashed media conditioning in the face of reality)? My quote was:
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Blaphbee wrote:
In any event, while this may be the best thing to come out in years, with the lone exception of Rob Halford that springs to mind, that's hardly a feather in one's cap to have such a distinction conferred upon oneself, considering the absolute void of innovation this group possesses.

In no way was I saying what you inferred, instead I was going by your assertion that sliced bread has nothing on VC; my point is - when there is no content to suitably praise (in this case, content that has been done before many times in the past), and when one judges who is doing the judging (in this case, scenster dimwits who need something to justify their social-club), the validity of VC to some ridiculous "scene" evaporates.

When something's on top of shit, I'm more than happy to let it fester there; I've said what I've said to warn the half-awake people away from being duped into thinking that something which is okay, or pretty good in some way makes it plausibly commendable as being on par with the classics of old, especially in light of the fact that those classics have been raped of their aesthetic and musical content many times since then by individuals who cannot create for themselves, and who have done it better than VC has, but are still shit all the same.

You encourage crap, don't be surprised when people call crap out for what it is.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 12, 2004, 05:14:26 PM
Forgive me, the above post is mine, in another account's name; shows you what you get for being half-asleep.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 13, 2004, 08:10:01 AM
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They cannot solely be judged by their music alone, as they constantly parrot their ideological stance either a) through their rare interviews (again, driving up the media frenzy through hints and teasers) or b) through their obsessive fanboys


I think this just goes to show that my point is spot on. How can they 'constantly' parrot their views if their interviews are 'rare'? 2 interviews in 8 years = constantly parroting their views? I don't buy it. And again, their fanbase has zero affect on how I percieve the music. You are far too caught up in the goings on of the 'scene', which is polluting your senses. Focus on the art at hand, don't worry about fanboys.

By all means this band is certainly disliked by many which is understandable, but there are a few who see something special and original here. If the closest comparison you can find is Burzum and you write off their views as some gimmick or novelty ploy then that is your own agenda.

The guy from VC used to be Craig's right hand guy (Craig was the spokesperson for ELF around the time VC formed) and I've seen clips of them together, so as much as people want to call this a gimmick or marketing ploy I think that is pure hodgepodge with no factual basis, just random guesswork.

Either that, or VC decided 8 years ago to get involved with ELF so that they could go all this time just to release 1 album on FMP, do 2 interviews and call it quits.

Honestly, I think you're grabbing at whatever you can to use as an excuse.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 13, 2004, 12:12:10 PM
Seems there's no helping postmodernists.

You attack the semantics that surround my point, interject useless relativisms as justification for your own, and totally evade my question: "how is this more important content-wise than anything done by Burzum (for instance)?" - not only this, but you seem to be under the impression that the music these trend-hopping camel jockeys create can somehow be arbitrarily and objectively judged independently of their other actions and statements; do you believe in free will, too? - not only this, but who gives a shit if they are legitimately connected with ELF? The fact that they require this label upon themselves and the music they create, and never fail to remind everyone of this connection, makes me wonder at what they're compensating for?

All this sideshow is, is surface aesthetic, with no content, designed to be abstract and ambient so that every dumbfuck can "get it" and feel like they understand it too, instead of being an attempt to actually create something of lasting value and worth; nope, all we get is a collage of recombinant riffs, novelty items to distract the eye, and drugged-up ideological individualism that only attracts more flies to the steaming shit pile.

There is nothing here that won't be immediately forgotten in a years time, when the next BM trend rounds the bend.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 13, 2004, 10:35:34 PM
Velvet Caccoon are not bad; they're also not memorable. Sometimes it's best to make great music before one attaches politics to it. It worked for Burzum.

I also have a hearty distrust for novelty instruments and stances. It's possible these guys were ELF buddies who eventually decided to make black metal; good for them, I guess. But in my view what they're really doing is adding thousands of CDs to the human landfill record.

For context, however, there have been only about five post-1998 black metal albums that have had any impact on me. The rest have recently been sold to Half Price Books at Kirby and Rice Blvd, if anyone wants them. I sure don't. Landfill.

Another way to say this: I prefer what is excellent. Mediocre is depressing. It hasn't occurred to many yet that the difference between today's black metal and that of the past is qualitative, not chronological.


Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 13, 2004, 11:20:21 PM
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Seems there's no helping postmodernists.

You attack the semantics that surround my point, interject useless relativisms as justification for your own, and totally evade my question: "how is this more important content-wise than anything done by Burzum (for instance)?" - not only this, but you seem to be under the impression that the music these trend-hopping camel jockeys create can somehow be arbitrarily and objectively judged independently of their other actions and statements; do you believe in free will, too? - not only this, but who gives a shit if they are legitimately connected with ELF?


You do, obviously, as you were calling into question the authenticity of this 'gimmick', suggesting that it might be some big hoax. Now that you have been disproven, you want to suddenly pretend you don't even care if it's real. You're putting on quite a show here.

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The fact that they require this label upon themselves and the music they create, and never fail to remind everyone of this connection, makes me wonder at what they're compensating for?


How do they 'require' this label upon their music? How is this seen as some great negative while bands like Burzum who touted an anti-christian then NS ideology completely fine? You're saying simply because the band has a stance (and -constantly- makes it known in their 2 whole interviews) that they are suddenly gimmicks, meanwhile bands who do an interview a week arent? Actually, looking on the Burzum site that guy has done dozens and dozens of interviews (if not hundreds). Now that would be never failing to spread ones views. You're quite desperate for a reason to dislike this band it seems.

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All this sideshow is, is surface aesthetic, with no content, designed to be abstract and ambient so that every dumbfuck can "get it" and feel like they understand it too, instead of being an attempt to actually create something of lasting value and worth; nope, all we get is a collage of recombinant riffs, novelty items to distract the eye, and drugged-up ideological individualism that only attracts more flies to the steaming shit pile.


There you go again calling it novely with no basis other than 'they made a weird guitar' and 'everyone on the internet likes them'. Until you decide to stop pretending you hate anything because others like it, you'll always lose these sorts of arguments (especially considering you aren't even presenting one).

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There is nothing here that won't be immediately forgotten in a years time, when the next BM trend rounds the bend.


I've been into this music since around 1988 and I've seen lots of bands come and go. This VC album (not sure about the previous ones, but this one in particular) will certainly stand out.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 13, 2004, 11:22:35 PM
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Velvet Caccoon are not bad; they're also not memorable. Sometimes it's best to make great music before one attaches politics to it. It worked for Burzum.

I also have a hearty distrust for novelty instruments and stances. It's possible these guys were ELF buddies who eventually decided to make black metal; good for them, I guess. But in my view what they're really doing is adding thousands of CDs to the human landfill record.

For context, however, there have been only about five post-1998 black metal albums that have had any impact on me. The rest have recently been sold to Half Price Books at Kirby and Rice Blvd, if anyone wants them. I sure don't. Landfill.

Another way to say this: I prefer what is excellent. Mediocre is depressing. It hasn't occurred to many yet that the difference between today's black metal and that of the past is qualitative, not chronological.




How is their stance novelty unless trying to bring in new and intelligent thought to stale Satanic rhetoric novelty. The clip I saw of this band shows they were into ecoradicalism long before anyone in black metal made mention of it, including this very site.

And it amazes me that the admin for this site would talk negatively of Velvet Cacoon meanwhile feature interviews with bands like XASTHUR and KRIEG.

I would really like to hear how either of those two bands are doing something (musically or ideologically) which Velvet Cacoon isnt.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 14, 2004, 01:57:29 AM
Sorry, you lose on that last point.  I'm not a devout hater of Velvet Cacoon like many here are (I see them as good, but not classic), but Krieg slaughters them.

Xasthur does suck, though.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 14, 2004, 03:33:19 AM
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Sorry, you lose on that last point.  I'm not a devout hater of Velvet Cacoon like many here are (I see them as good, but not classic), but Krieg slaughters them.

Xasthur does suck, though.



Aside from the Patrick Bateman CD, what is innovative about Krieg in the slightest, other than ripping off early Finnish black grind bands?

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 14, 2004, 01:20:26 PM
Question evaded once again:

"how is VC more important content-wise than anything done by Burzum (for instance)?"

Don't attack me - address my question. It's getting us nowhere.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 16, 2004, 06:09:29 PM
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As you said yourself, it's probably the best to come out in years, so that's gotta be worth something,  


Eh, you got me mixed up with somebody else, my assessment was:

"The guy doing the interview seems smart and articulate.  As for the music, it's about par for course as "good" modern black metal goes: there's nothing conspicuously wrong with it but I still don't think it's worth bothering with. "

...which still stands, although I've sort of warmed up to them.  If somebody held a gun to my head and forced me to buy a 2003-2004 black metal album I might get "Genevieve"... if I couldn't find the latest Blut Aus Nord or Deathspell Omega in stock.