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Influences driving the evolution of metal

Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 14, 2009, 07:15:58 PM
Based on a topic by Ragnarök:

Historically important bands who contributed style or content to the ongoing evolution of the metal mythos and music:

1960s:

Jethro Tull
King Crimson
Iggy Pop
Black Sabbath

1970s:

Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Angel Witch
Motorhead

1980s:

Discharge
GBH
The Exploited

Metallica
Exodus

Slayer
Bathory
Hellhammer/Celtic Frost
Sodom

Morbid Angel
Deicide
Pestilence

1990s:

Atheist
At the Gates
Demilich
Gorguts

Godflesh

Burzum
Beherit
Emperor
Gorgoroth
Enslaved
Immortal
Ildjarn

2000s:

Summoning
Profanatica
Skepticism

That's a starter list. Should be interesting to watch it flesh out.


Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 14, 2009, 08:14:58 PM
Rush and Hawkwind come to mind from early 70's bands that were a major link to Iron Maiden and Motorhead, respectively. Imagery was also borrowed from Kiss, Queen and Sex Pistols but they were more pop culture phenomena than interesting music. How about Mercyful Fate or Misfits, whose combination is Metallica?

Venom was influential in image but not musically too interesting, just as early Death it's an overdone topic here. I would prefer Destruction to Sodom and something along the lines of Master, D.R.I. or Cryptic Slaughter could flesh out the 80's selections, depending on what you wish to illustrate. Sarcofago and Blasphemy show how you go from Slayer to Beherit.

The death/grind section makes me think the original compiler was in a fusion jazz mood because there's Pestilence, Gorguts and Demilich but no Napalm Death, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, Obituary, Amorphis, Autopsy, Entombed, Possessed, Necrovore, Sepultura... it's a decision to show one direction against another one.

DARKTHRONE. Not such a big fan of Mayhem but can't say they didn't contribute too.

The 2000's list contains only bands that created essentially the same art already in early-to-mid 90's.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 14, 2009, 09:35:03 PM

DARKTHRONE. Not such a big fan of Mayhem but can't say they didn't contribute too.


yeah, Darkthrone seems necessary.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 14, 2009, 09:58:50 PM
The original list has some good names on it.

To that I'd add:

1980s
Venom
Helloween
Candlemass

1990s
Blind Guardian
In Flames (along with At the Gates, hugely influential in pioneering the Gothenburg style, the aftershock of which is still felt with the metalcore bands of today)

Also, Venom was hugely influential not just in image but also conceptually and even musically. They were ahead of their time musically, bordering on thrash and much rawer and more ballsy than any of their heavy metal contemporaries. They're a great band, they should definitely be on the list.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 14, 2009, 10:07:59 PM
I understood the list as being about innovations of style and technique, not about who spawned a thousand imitators. Some did both. Sentenced and Voivod came to mind.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 14, 2009, 10:20:20 PM
I understood the list as being about innovations of style and technique, not about who spawned a thousand imitators.

That was also my understanding.

Some did both. Sentenced

Huh?

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 14, 2009, 11:01:09 PM
Led Zeppelin belongs on the list for bringing folk into the mix.

It seems that this is a list of artists who took metal to a higher stage of development with their music. In Flames did just the opposite, despite how influential they were.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 15, 2009, 07:12:58 AM
Some did both. Sentenced

Huh?

I don't know if you are familiar with Scandinavia, but the "death rock" with Iron Maiden leads and screamed/shouted vocals was born in the latter half of the 90's mostly through Sentenced and Dark Tranquillity. In Flames was just the lesser known little brother of DT before they became a pop metal band. Old newsgroup postings from back then note that Children of Bodom sounds like Sentenced crossed with power metal.

How about Cathedral, Winter or the lesser but more listened Paradise Lost? They built the foundation for Skepticism's style, through Thergothon (or Unholy?) and diSEMBOWELMENT.

Therion made major contributions first to death metal, then to symphonic/operatic metal.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 15, 2009, 09:27:22 AM
Just a tangent, not ultra-serious but maybe will help to trace some of the patterns.

The 60's bands seem to be mostly countercultural revolutionary bands in the sense of the Doors, whose main agenda is to be anti-Establishment in sound and ideology. This could work on multiple levels, from political (MC5 etc.) to artistic (King Crimson and emerging artists such as Tangerine Dream).

The 70's bands are more conservative in ideology, embracing a hedonistic lifestyle with no care for political problems and the only association with rebellious social groups is some biker aesthetic and drug use. They embraced the rock radio and stadiums which would have been shunned by the previous bands.

While punks returned to the ideals of revolution metalheads were more interested heroes and barbarians leading to interest in individualism, libertarianism, traditions and occultism. Many of the values were actually conservative in nature (see Manowar, WASP etc. with ties to Republican politics). NWOBHM bands wanted to retain the guitar fireworks of 70's heavy rock heroes but make it fast, rowdy and street efficient in the spirit of Motorhead, to get rid of the rock radio adults and build a violent new generation not so far in spirit from Hitler Jugend.

Hardcore and crust built such avantgardistic collages of noise that metal had to respond in order to stay extreme and interesting. The protest topics were metamorphed into explorations of evil. All the groundbreaking bands of the 80's were striving to be more evil and more extreme than the others, before succumbing to the taint of commerciality. But as remarked by Silenius of Summoning, this obsession could last only until the early 90's because trying to be more evil and noisy than Blasphemy, Beherit and Impaled Nazarene becomes simply ludicrous. From then on it's bands like Burzum and Demilich not trying to top anyone's stakes but produce a unique artistic expression by a restructuring of the idea of death metal and black metal. The concept stays the same but it's given a new musical expression.

It's somehow tempting to relate to this the fact that when we browse around forums, we find that nearly everyone agrees on good music until the 90's but regarding the past 10-20 years it's hard to believe anyone's recommendations, even those of my favorite reviewers.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 17, 2009, 12:34:15 PM
Quote from: Devamitra link=topic=5793.msg33194#msg33194
I don't know if you are familiar with Scandinavia, but the "death rock" with Iron Maiden leads and screamed/shouted vocals was born in the latter half of the 90's mostly through Sentenced and Dark Tranquillity. In Flames was just the lesser known little brother of DT before they became a pop metal band. Old newsgroup postings from back then note that Children of Bodom sounds like Sentenced crossed with power metal.

Actually, “death rock” means something completely different and unrelated to what you’re implying it to be, as does death 'n roll, for that matter.

If I get your drift though, I agree with you: Sentenced were a good if not the best band in the early melodic death metal style - the kind also typified also by early At the Gates, early In Flames, early Dark Tranquillity, Eucharist, Ablaze My Sorrow, A Canorous Quintet, Decameron, Ceremonial Oath, Dark Tranquillity etc. The type of metal their "North From Here" album represents though is much more than just "Iron Maiden leads and screamed/shouted vocals", IE "pop metal". I dunno about Sentenced spawning millions of imitators though since many bands were doing the exact same thing at the same time, including At the Gates. Maybe you could elucidate me on this?

The “pop metal” you’re talking about is in my view something different from what I described, where Sentenced could be said to be an innovator. The major innovators in this Gothenburg style that took over I see as being Carcass (with Heartwork), At the Gates (SotS), Dissection, Hypocrisy (The 4th Dimension) and In Flames (first 4 records). I don’t see Sentenced being an innovator here. They (unnotably) changed sound on Crimson and so did Amorphis, to this new style (producing IMO their best album ever). As for Dark Tranquillity, I see them doing pretty much the same stuff Sentenced did on North From Here only two years later, whereas In Flames folky guitar stylings introduced something completely new.

The "Iron Maiden with a cold" schtick grates on my nerves since Iron Maiden neither invented melodic guitar lines in metal, nor are they the best example of it. If you're going to pigeonhole an entire style like that you might as well call Altars of Madness a more technical Possessed or Ildjarn a shittier Burzum.

The CoB newsgroup stuff you're talking about probably refers to Sentenced because they're both Finnish bands so it's an easy comparison to make.


Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 17, 2009, 01:02:30 PM
Death rock was in parentheses for a reason.

"North from Here" album was inventive, "Amok" was the one that spawned imitators. I can't see how else to describe it except death metal ideas merged with heavy rock. The guitar lines are definitely inspired by Iron Maiden, who else? Judas Priest? Helloween? Angel Witch? Doesn't sound like them at all to my ear. It's also evident from the cover version of "The Trooper".

You're right Sentenced was not alone, as At the Gates and Dark Tranquillity had created Gothenburg years before but with a harsher sound and more delicate compositions and thus obviously were not so catchy to the general public. The '95 generation of death/heavy metal albums including "Amok", "The Gallery" and "Slaughter of the Soul" was massively popular here, that's why I hold those mainly responsible for the similar sounding music that came afterwards, even though for example "Heartwork" definitely played a part too. Paradise Lost and Tiamat also had been playing an easy listening death/doom hybrid for years. I just know that back in the day, Sentenced was a massive hit in Finland and in a year or two, these quite-heavy-metal-but-imitating-death-vocals bands filled the whole world. And it's still one of the dominating mainstream metal styles through CoB, Arch Enemy, Haunted, Soilwork, Amon Amarth... endlessly. I believe they also inspired the abominable groove-thrash-rock hybrids in the vein of Diablo, Stamina and Mokoma that nowadays populate Finnish metal festivals.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 17, 2009, 07:57:45 PM

DARKTHRONE. Not such a big fan of Mayhem but can't say they didn't contribute too.


yeah, Darkthrone seems necessary.

Darkthrone is second in terms of importance behind Burzum I would say. They must be on that list. In terms of Black Metal, that is.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 18, 2009, 12:04:39 AM
For the 70s I wanted to bring up Japanese Band Flower Travellin' Band's 1971 album Satori. Even if it shouldn't be on the list I still feel it's something metal afficionados should be aware of. Great atmosphere, listen for yourselves:

Satori pt. 1

Satori pt. 3

They also did a cover of "Black Sabbath" at one point so that's some indication of their influences.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 18, 2009, 01:35:12 AM
For the 70s I wanted to bring up Japanese Band Flower Travellin' Band's 1971 album Satori. Even if it shouldn't be on the list I still feel it's something metal afficionados should be aware of. Great atmosphere, listen for yourselves:

Satori pt. 1

Satori pt. 3

They also did a cover of "Black Sabbath" at one point so that's some indication of their influences.


Haha, I have to admit, the name made me think this was a troll.

Fascinating though, I'd have to have a more intense listen to have a more proper opinion, but initially, I have to admit, those are quite interesting melodies given the time period.  By the way, wouldn't this better be served in the "Bands worth hearing" thread?

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 18, 2009, 03:19:21 AM
There are differences between breaking ground, optimal instance, standard, and emulation. The first two are quality works with the first a pioneer generation and the latter the settlers who come to inhabit. D.R.I. with the crossover era were pioneers for thrash and an optimal instance of punk + metal hybridization. Demilich is an optimal or perfected instance of the already established death metal frontier.

Standard death metal would be other listenable death metal bands who generally seem to "get it".

Emulation are rockers with any combination of growling vocals, lots of rapid percussion clamour, cruel or horrid lyrics and heavy chords. But somehow, you know something is missing with these, like baffled immigrants in an established land, unable to integrate making the place dumb, crude and ugly.