Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Influences driving the evolution of metal

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 19, 2009, 11:25:46 PM
People don't understand that lists of influences are an attempt to put together an outline, not mention every last detail.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 24, 2009, 07:59:27 PM

The "Iron Maiden with a cold" schtick grates on my nerves since Iron Maiden neither invented melodic guitar lines in metal, nor are they the best example of it.


To claim that they are inventors would be insane but they are without doubt innovators of technique probably crucial in musical education of members of Sentenced and At the Gates.

Show me something like that in metal before Maiden (no offense here as I just honestly want to widen my historical spectrum):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jaRipA5_M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cIVZct06FM&feature=PlayList&p=20E435344D1E950A&index=0

You should also Pay Fucking Attention for those quasi blast beats (main reason why i choose those two songs). Many of metal bands later utilized rather that "ambient" blast beat than the variant known from hardcore/crossover and later from grindcore.

Re: Influences driving the evolution of metal
April 24, 2009, 08:31:57 PM
Heck, Sentenced even liked Iron Maiden so much that they put out an EP ("The Trooper") named after one of 'Maiden's biggest hits, which included a cover of the song as the opening title track.

Aside from Judas Priest, the only other real "competitior" I can think of to the type of melodically-driven music that Iron Maiden was playing in the 1980s would be Mercyful Fate, but even 'Fate has a very different, more "evil" sense of melodicism (no pun intended) than what ended up getting used by all the "melo-death" acts of the 1990s and eventually found its way into the music of today's popular "tech" and "-core" bands.

In other words, there's a reason why you can walk into a Hot Topic store today and see a number of Iron Maiden shirts lining the wall:

the band's influence on metal culture, for better or worse, was simply that wide and profound.

Iron Maiden found the original prog/jazz/metal combo, mainly by making it 75% metal. They are a much better band than, say, Cynic.

They understood that metal was structural music, so let the bass roam free in repetitive patterns that accompanied the lead voice in the song -- the rhythm guitar. They kept metal riffs, but used harmony like a progressive band. And there were small classical influences and classical themes.

When people talk about the Iron Maiden influence, they're usually talking about the use of harmony rather than melody, per se.  Using constant (and relentlessly consonant) parallel harmony is sort of a quick and dirty way to make rock music sound more "melodic," the fixed relationship between the melody line and the harmony line makes it easier for the ear to follow both.

The first two Iron Maiden releases were strong and savvy in that they avoided the saccharine simplicity of abusing this technique.  Later releases from the band reduce the "Maiden sound" to a rock-ready formula by excising structural and rhythmic complexity and reducing the band's harmonic palette solely to fixed parallel harmonies.  Superficially, it "sounds like" metal, but from Number of the Beast On, it might as well be Boston.  Unfortunately, that's the "Iron Maiden" that lame "death metal' bands love to imitate.

They kept metal riffs, but used harmony like a progressive band.

No they didn't. Maiden almost always harmonized in fifths, sometimes thirds; typically metal "power chord" harmonizing. That's nothing compared to what bands like Gryphon would do. Metal as a whole is seriously lacking in harmony.

They understood that metal was structural music, so let the bass roam free in repetitive patterns that accompanied the lead voice in the song -- the rhythm guitar.

Uhh, I would have figured the lead voice in a Maiden song is just that - the voice. The rhythm guitar in most of their material is thin and not nearly as present as the bass. In fact, usually the bass carries the rhythm... And as for "structural music", most of their songs except the obvious "epics" are all verse-chorus. Nothing new there. You have some of the most whacked-out and on top of that most pompous-sounding views on metal I've ever come across on the internet.

And there were small classical influences and classical themes.

... where?

And as for "structural music", most of their songs except the obvious "epics" are all verse-chorus. Nothing new there.


Playing down music as "verse-chorus" is a failure to analyze whatever structure there might be except on a most superficial level. Some of the most complicated music contains verses and choruses - it doesn't always have to mean it's mindless pop.

Uhh, I would have figured the lead voice in a Maiden song is just that - the voice. The rhythm guitar in most of their material is thin and not nearly as present as the bass. In fact, usually the bass carries the rhythm... And as for "structural music", most of their songs except the obvious "epics" are all verse-chorus. Nothing new there.

Iron Maiden sometimes use the bass like another rhythm guitar. In the many instrumental tracks such as "Transylvania" it's easy to see what ASBO meant by rhythm guitar = lead voice. They go back to rhythm guitar again on "No Prayer For The Dying" and "Fear Of The Dark", after their prog phase. Structural epics like "PHantom of the Opera" are in fact new, because they had not been done in NWOBHM - and as Esoteric commented, there are other aspects to make it "structural" besides being "riff salad" without verse and chorus at all.

Quote
And there were small classical influences and classical themes.

... where?

One of the most obvious ones is a classical guitar piece by Isaac Albeniz quoted in "To Tame a Land". I think there are others... Maiden fans love digging up these things.

One of the most obvious ones is a classical guitar piece by Isaac Albeniz quoted in "To Tame a Land". I think there are others... Maiden fans love digging up these things.

So when Iron Maiden does it it's "quoting their classical influences and classical themes" but when Children of Bodom does it it's ripping off Bach?

Blind Guardian deserves a mention for pushing metal to greater heights of intensity, melodiousness and musicality. Their material between Imaginations From the Other Side and A Night at the Opera is pure gold and some of the best metal ever recorded.

One of the most obvious ones is a classical guitar piece by Isaac Albeniz quoted in "To Tame a Land". I think there are others... Maiden fans love digging up these things.

So when Iron Maiden does it it's "quoting their classical influences and classical themes" but when Children of Bodom does it it's ripping off Bach?

I have no idea about anything CoB-related but in every art form there is a clear distinction between intelligent, tasteful quotation and blatant, stupid rip off. It has to do with the way it's incorporated into the material. Is it subtle? Is it meaningful?