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Living Sustainably

Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 12:58:47 AM
It is becoming increasingly apparent that modern society's way of living is bringing it towards certain self-destruction, if not by ecocide, then by war. As somebody who always attempts to see the world as clearly as possible and acting accordingly, I have decided to leave the suburban life that I have grown accustomed to and build my own shelter in the vast Oregon wilderness, where I will grow my own food and live free of any dependence on any system besides nature's. I have already started amassing the funds to buy property in cash, and I already have the knowledge and skills necessary. The comfort I will find among the strength and beauty of the wild will far exceed any meek comforts I have been given by consumer society. I will not miss it...

Does anybody else here have any similar plans, or do you carry a different opinion on the future altogether?

Re: Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 03:51:33 AM
Heh, I'm not sure if your post is a troll (a joke) or actually serious. If the former, ha, you got me. If the latter...

Understandable, but a huge mistake.

Listen.

You take a look at the morons in this civilization and you see that all they care about is themselves. "Nature? What's that? I just want a paycheck and a TV, man!" Disgusted at how the natural world (and not just the natural world) is being destroyed as they all go about in their individual illusions, you flee. You run to the hills. There, you'll be alone, with nature, where you can be rustic, authentic, and pure...

SOUNDS good. Right? Right.

But... there's a problem: There are thousands just like you. They'll all move "out there" (into the "wilds") too. Most of them have more money than you. Oh, and that's just now... In five years from now, more people will develop the same disgust and desire to "get away from it all". What ends up happening? Instead of YOU living out in the "wild", the "wild" becomes the Next Big Thing (for those who can afford it), and before you know it, you're living in a huge amusement park (illusion land, suburbia, they're all synomonous). You went in a circle, because you ran away.

We can't run away. We can't run off and be lonely mountain man or cool commune comrades. Not now. We may live a "pure" life out there, but meanwhile the filthy mass will still be there... polluting, expanding, destroying, drilling, paving, burning, chopping, and breeding, until there is nothing left (if not in your time, then in your childrens' time or their children's time).

Now the tricky part. What, then, is the solution? HELP establish a philosophical revolution that we're all in ONE reality and that everything we do has dire effects on the whole, and therefore, on ourselves.

This means:

- Institutionalization: Massive encouragement of reality, massive discouragement of illusions
- Depopulation
- Improvement: Healthier distribution of necessary goods and services (food, etc.), generally meaning 'localization'
- Non-consumer society (more focus on military / martial arts, wise use of technology, spirituality, sciences, arts, etc.)
- Intentional efforts at conservation and increasing biodiversity (reversing ecocide)

Even then, these are just generalizations, posted by some dude on a metal forum. What is needed is thousands of intelligent, educated, confident men and women spreading these ideas in their communities and coming up with ways for their locality to adapt.

Intelligence means organization. It means harmony. Look at the word "organism".

Will most cities / towns do this? Of course not. They'll continue to "grow" and build hip new stores... for awhile. But a man in the woods can't wage a war against those who wish to fill our world with toxic shit. He can only run away. Together, a minority of us can stand up to the horde of morons.

In any case, we can only TRY. But that's the point anyway, right?

Reality... it's fuckin' strange...

Re: Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 04:36:55 AM
I'm not trolling.
You brought up a series of excellent points. While I never implied that I was leaving society altogether, I still need to lead by example if I'm going to be spreading any sort of message of social revolution, if that's even my total goal. If I live this way, I believe that I will be more happy and alive than a high majority of the people I've ever met. I will be strong, and have lots of time and space to cultivate my mind. And if people see my happiness, perhaps they will want to join me. In the end, the decision falls on them. If not, nature will sort things out soon enough through disease and mass extinction.

People's concerns over this change are trivial. Who has the means to remove those from a man but himself, or the government? And I certainly do not want to be an agent of the government.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 06:20:51 AM
People's concerns over this change are trivial. Who has the means to remove those from a man but himself, or the government? And I certainly do not want to be an agent of the government.

If you can't beat 'em: Join 'em.

Running away will only give the urban sprawl a bigger reason to creep up to your forest domain and shit upon it.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 08:00:34 AM
Personally, I'm planning to be relatively self-sufficient, as soon as I have a job.  I will endeavor to make most of everything that is required by my family - food, furniture, music, and so on.  I'm planning on becoming a teacher, which probably gives me a far greater amount of time to do such things in, especially as I'll teach fairly close to my home, which will essentially be in the "wilderness" (there is one, dead-end, road, which leads to and from my ancestors' village, my desired physical destination in life).

Essentially, I'll create my own, personal, and rather small, farm, which will feed myself and my closer family (wife + children, possibly parents later on).  Clothing may be a problem at the start, though there will probably be a number of farmers in the area who wouldn't mind selling extra X with which to make clothes.

II think this is a far better option than simply going out into the wilderness, building a home, and living so utterly removed from humans.  As a teacher, I could conceivably shape the minds of the newer generations to whatever ends I please, my mind being of sounder and more complex construction than the majority of other "teachers" I have met in my life.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 01:21:34 PM


But... there's a problem: There are thousands just like you. They'll all move "out there" (into the "wilds") too. Most of them have more money than you. Oh, and that's just now... In five years from now, more people will develop the same disgust and desire to "get away from it all". What ends up happening? Instead of YOU living out in the "wild", the "wild" becomes the Next Big Thing (for those who can afford it), and before you know it, you're living in a huge amusement park (illusion land, suburbia, they're all synomonous). You went in a circle, because you ran away.

We can't run away. We can't run off and be lonely mountain man or cool commune comrades. Not now. We may live a "pure" life out there, but meanwhile the filthy mass will still be there... polluting, expanding, destroying, drilling, paving, burning, chopping, and breeding, until there is nothing left (if not in your time, then in your childrens' time or their children's time).

Excellent point, and if you desire an example, look at population density and the general structure of what are now called "suburban" towns in America as they existed about 10 years prior to the Civil War. They sound like idyllic places back then right?

Well, then the slaves were freed, they all moved to the city to fill unskilled labor positions, and the whites who lived there wanted nothing to do with them. The white city folk "got away from it all" too, by spreading out from the cities into the surrounding land, and turning places once rural into something more like the cities they left.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 09:57:44 PM
Does anybody else here have any similar plans, or do you carry a different opinion on the future altogether?

I want to say you're jumping the gun, but that isn't really accurate. What you're practicing probably isn't necessary unless you are going to be a fugitive like Eric Rudolph or a resistance fighter should China invade similar to the movie Red Dawn.

The decline isn't a sudden crash to hunter gatherer, but more like a slow stepping down into a series of new civilizations that are gradually squeezed out from the unsustainable living we used to take for granted. This is multi-generational and I doubt we ever end up in lean-tos in the woods. Read up on what this guy believes for a more realistic perspective. http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

Re: Living Sustainably
May 19, 2009, 11:02:19 PM
This is multi-generational and I doubt we ever end up in lean-tos in the woods.


This is a house made out of cob, similar to the one I wish to build. Hardly a shack. Perhaps at the time I wrote this, I made my intentions seem a bit extreme. I'm not aiming to pull a Thoreau, just to become a happier and healthier person.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 20, 2009, 12:48:38 AM
While it makes for a nice ideal, II don't think complete isolation from society is ever a sound move.

Getting away from big cities urban sprawl is great, but at the same time I think it's important to have direct contact with family, friends, and some sort of outside community.

My advice to you would be to find a small community somewhere that's removed from the modern world and make that your home instead of the isolated wilderness.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 20, 2009, 01:12:23 AM
While it makes for a nice ideal, II don't think complete isolation from society is ever a sound move.

Getting away from big cities urban sprawl is great, but at the same time I think it's important to have direct contact with family, friends, and some sort of outside community.

My advice to you would be to find a small community somewhere that's removed from the modern world and make that your home instead of the isolated wilderness.

Don't draw conclusions that simply aren't there. I will have a family, I will have friends, but I will be off the grid. For every thousand hacks (in this case, hippies and hermits), there's one honest man that people try to push into the crowd to make things more easily digestible.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 20, 2009, 01:29:25 AM
 Go for it. I actually plan to do the same someday. If anything is unrealistic here it's the comments on this thread. Life is about enjoying it, and if I have to remove myself from this sick society then that's what it takes. I consider the world too far down the drain for me to even contribute to saving. Therefor I'm going to enjoy my life and hope I can enjoy it before things collapse completely. Call it fatalism if you want- I'm not convinced things can be turned around.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 20, 2009, 01:52:32 AM
Quote
If we want to save this particular civilization, it would NOT be enough to stabilize population and energy consumption. We would also have to abandon economic "growth," and abandon technological "progress" defined in terms of complexity or size or power. It wouldn't be the end of innovation -- engineers would just shift their focus to efficiency and elegance. I'm already using an operating system, Puppy Linux, dedicated to staying tiny while increasing usefulness. The Nintendo Wii, with an innovative controller and simple accessible games, left the Playstation 3 with its massive processing power in the dust. Ikea revolutionized the furniture industry with little more than boards and screws. One Laptop per Child is intended to ramp up the "developing" world, but something similar could ramp down the overdeveloped world and stabilize the computer industry -- if so many careers and egos didn't depend on making computers constantly faster and more powerful so you can sell people a new one every two years.

I don't think this civilization is going to make it. But civilization in general, defined simply as a highly complex society, is almost certain to persist. In the following sections, I explain why I think so, and what we would have to do to keep it stable, instead of suffering repeated rises and falls. Stable does not mean static -- nature itself is stable without being static.

http://ranprieur.com/essays/saveciv.html

We still live in the "information" age. Because of this, even the best minds freak out and Plan For the Worst. That guy that Viridovix links to seems pretty realistic: sure, there may be diseases and disasters here and there, but if we don't blow them out of proportion, we'll realize most of what will end up happening is people with a clue using the last of the information age to slowly transition their locality with whatever comes their way. Again, the point is not to run away or wait for Obama to save you. Become the change.

Re: Living Sustainably
May 20, 2009, 03:28:11 AM
As I have stated before in this thread quite clearly, I am not going to hermit myself. I am not gratified by my current consumer lifestyle, and the ugliness and disease of the cities and the fearfulness of the masses. I used to devour the news every evening... now it makes me physically sick to hear it. My city is building a "green" hotel? Money is still exchanging hands, and if those who profit slap a little band-aid on a missing limb, then all the better for them. They get to look like good people.

There is a lot of talk about change on this site. But where are our great actions?

Re: Living Sustainably
May 20, 2009, 04:59:58 AM
They don't happen with the wave of a wand. Like the changing of ages, great actions are little incremental steps that grow with each success. They certainly won't take place wasting time with people off doing their own little thing all by themselves or still trying to discover their place in life. Great things together requires people who already know where they fit and who are able to cooperate in mutual effort. That's a very rare thing around here wouldn't you agree?

Re: Living Sustainably
May 20, 2009, 06:18:20 AM
I see we're all about speaking in absolutes here.
If this is the case, and I must dilute my message in order for it to be palatable and soft, and stand upon a soapbox in front of all the world, then I ask a simple question:
Can a man with a job have enough time in the day to maintain a field of plants, of all different varieties, not to mention a small quantity of livestock?