The history of metal's opposition to Christianity?

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

well so far every single reason ive ever read about metal to oppose it has had nothing to do with the religion itself (asides from the paradoxes) but rather about the people who follow it. I am not opposed to it at all because the religion itself teaches to an extent the spirit of vir. After all the bible does say thou shall not kill yet god tells many people to kill others, i belive this means do not kill in cold blood or for petty reasons (teaching sensible morals) but fight for your land and home and whats important. This catches the warlike and peacful side. I belive the religion is fine, its simply idiots who misunderstand what it means and decide to take over a country because they are not christian, or killing and destroying all other signs of non-christian culture

thats also why i dont mind most anti-christian bands (like burzum) because they speak of the deeds that the greedy corrupted followers of christianity and not of the faith itself

but i think i will always be sympathetic towards for my entire family (extended as well) are all christian, and my dad seems to uphold every single moral and atribute thats supposed to make a good hessian a hessian, so im wondering am i just to sympathetic to the religion or is it the way people interperate it that makes it bad?

[The_Absu]

I think the main reason metal is in opposition to Christianity and Christian values is because unlike many pagan religions, Christianity emphasizes forgiveness. Not just forgiveness among people, but forgiveness of corporations for ruining the environment, forgiveness for the man who burned  your home to ground, forgiveness for the doctor who was too drunk to save you sister when she got in a car wreck, etc.

All this forgiveness is unnatural and retards the growth of a person because it encourages him to exist in a bubble where everything is happy and  no one is wrong unless they don't love and follow your  God. As a Christian, you start forgiving people (and yourself) of preventable failings that, if dealt with correctly, would lead to them (or you) becoming a better person.

Christianity also set up the notion that your spiritual growth and worth could be measured by your material wealth (this concept gained the most strength in America). If you owned less actual property than your neighbor, then it must have meant that God wasn't watching over you as diligently as him, so there must have been something wrong with you.

But you KNOW you're not the 'sinner'  (another horrible concept) in your house, so your thoughts turn to your wife or Daughters. After all, God tells you that they are the more sinful of the sexes, so the 'sin' must lie with them. You can see how this might lead to domestic abuse as well as the greed-driven small-mindedness we see today.


As for the opposition to Judaism,  there's a page I read that talks about how Judaism holds a very virulent hatred  for everything that stands in its way. This hatred is so consuming that Jews seek to destroy everything that is not like them in any way possible. This includes conversion, war, subversion and a whole list of other activities. That only seems to account for some of the hostility that black metal, which is very jealous and protective of its own historical identity, shows for this religion.

(I think that page was out of Nietzsche, but I haven't found it again so I'm not sure.)

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

i dont entirely agree with that but i do concede
the fact that it does teach forgivness to a large and sometimes puzzeling extent but i belive that almost all of the bible is interpretive, thats why people go to church so they can learn about how someone else interperated it, thats also why my family stopped going when i was six is because they thought the churches were far to strict and tried to get everyone to live in a world that would be difficult for them for no reason.

my family remains christian but dont live life with the morals the church teaches but with there set of morals they see from the bible.

so if someone robbed my family (my mum being a cop) wouldnt turn a blind eye to the offence and would not forgive the person. That is unless they return all goods taken without damage and they ask for forgivness and trully mean it (ie wont commit the offence again with a resnable amount of trust) will they be forgiven.

I like this approach to a problem, they are only granted forgivness (or in modern terms dropping charges) once all damage done is repaired/returned with some sort of proof (maybe an oath of sorts if there word was trust worthy or some sort of compensation) that the crime/offence will never be carried out again.

However the bible does say that you should always forgive someone no matter how many times they offend but if they were to offend again take the exact approach except it would simply take much more to earn your trust to gain forgivness.

of of course the measure of the offence depends on how hard it is to gain forgivness, if a man killed a member of your family forgivness would not come easily and it would proberly take years for the person to have changed enough for you to even consider it (assuming there time behind bars changes them).

its a far from perfect appraoch but nowhere near as catastrophic as the teachings of the church

[scourge]

Judas Priest began mocking christ in the mid 70s. The song Starbreaker was one of the first.

[Selkie]

Metal opposes Christianity because it needs something to bitch about. It's funny how people waste so much time on something as petty as religion.

[ultranex]

People are slightly worried about death (the great unknown) but they don't have the capacity for anything other than easy answers:  Jesus.

So, actually, it's bitching about how stupid and subservient society at large is.

Also, it's about how important negative energy is.

[Death]

People are slightly worried about death (the great unknown) but they don't have the capacity for anything other than easy answers:  Jesus.

So, actually, it's bitching about how stupid and subservient society at large is.

Also, it's about how important negative energy is.

An equally easy answer is "you die and rot". The difference is that while Christianity (just as an example) managed to spread itself, build edifices, influence the course of history and even motivate people toward greatness, no one has made anything significant out of the mopey notion that death is final and a meaningless biological process.

Even the finality of biological death should be something that is questioned, but for some reason metalheads will accept anything you tell them, including that death is the ultimate end.

[Selkie]

Even the finality of biological death should be something that is questioned, but for some reason metalheads will accept anything you tell them, including that death is the ultimate end.

You should still live life as if biological death were the ultimate end, as there's no evidence prove anything contrary. Question all you like, if it pleases you, since it makes no real difference.

[Death]

You should still live life as if biological death were the ultimate end, as there's no evidence prove anything contrary. Question all you like, if it pleases you, since it makes no real difference.

It will eventually, if the right people (IE not metal fans, LOL) keep questioning.

[FIAT]

It will eventually, if the right people (IE not metal fans, LOL) keep questioning.

...which makes one question whether metal as an artform (vehicle for communication) succeded in transcending modernity, or its derivative philosophical approaches (after all, the most intelligent minds in metal have long since espoused that metal's opposition ot Christianity, in it's more highly evolved forms, became a lash at all of modernity itself, and not just Christian manifestations of modern decadence).

It did, surely, in isolated cases (Burzum, Morbid Angel, Bolt Thrower), but its future (or lack thereof) will reveal its ability to do so on a broader scope.

[ChristianHolocaust]

Metal isn't opposed to just Christianity, it's opposed to the idea that you can divide the world into good and bad or beautiful and ugly. Metal makes ugly beautiful. It makes evil good. It inverts the values of this society for reinterpretation. Christianity was big in the 80s because the American President, was a big hairy Christian who used it justify his wars. That is why black metal has gotten more "Satanic" since about 2000. In the 90s, when that burnt-out hippie Clinton was running the USA, metal got more existential and violent.

[More Celt Than Sassenach]

metal has nothing to do with good and evil, the genre has a strong anti-dualism outlook on life. It either views life as a naturalist would which means there is no good or evil but simply what one does to survive and pass on his/her DNA. Then theres the pagan view which again dosent have  good or evil in its beliefs. And satan is simply used to convey to the world we are forging our own way of life and to take up what we think is right and reject the ways of our forfathers (as satan did)

[Jofreidr_1488]

And another question, how was Judaism viewed in the past, ie, pre-second wave black metal?

Many think that the Megadeth song 'Holy Wars' is about the jewish/ palestinian conflict.  It is probably safe to say it is not a positive look at that region.

(others think the song is about The Troubles in Northern Ireland though.)

[ChristianHolocaust]

metal has nothing to do with good and evil, the genre has a strong anti-dualism outlook on life. It either views life as a naturalist would which means there is no good or evil but simply what one does to survive and pass on his/her DNA. Then theres the pagan view which again dosent have  good or evil in its beliefs.

It's also very much self-assertive music. It's an antidote for the underconfident, neurotic, snivelling modern worldview. Morality? Screw morality. Do what's coolest, where "cool" is used in the same way one would describe a great battle, a ruined castle, grand art, or a UFC knockout.