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Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?

ozz

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
June 27, 2009, 02:39:51 PM
My personal opinion is quite the opposite: death metal > black metal

Case in point.

Darkthrone's "Soulside Journey" is.... fucking a million times better then the "kult" trash they'd later release (sorry, but besides their debut, I hate this band).

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
July 05, 2009, 04:37:45 AM
BM is like a more advenced form of DM. Its a notch higher. Also, there are more BM bands that are worth hearing. IMO

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 19, 2009, 03:23:47 PM
Clearly black metal has the potential to ascend to higher levels compared to any death metal. Is it even a question? Think about what death metal actually represents. Then you will understand.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 20, 2009, 01:58:54 AM
I think that it's a matter of philosophical orientation. In the grand scheme of Metal history, Death Metal stands out as the point in which Judeo-Christian morality is fully denied, whereas Black Metal represents the point at which a new belief system, namely one rooted in a Neo-Pagan mythos, begins to emerge from this rejection. Death Metal is generally charachterized by a lack of belief, wheras Black Metal is charachterized by a resurgance in Pagan belief.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 20, 2009, 02:31:33 PM
It is as if one tears down the old rusted way and the other is the return to a more passionate lifestyle. 

Death Metal is Nietzsche's lion and Black Metal is Nietzche's child.

I mean that in a deep way as well.   Death Metal is too violent and destructive to actually hold an ideology along with it, while the more atmospheric black metal, while not as destruction, can indeed inspire.

I like this distinction and I'm buying it.  And if you buy it too, then that means Black Metal > Death Metal, because Nietzsche says Child > Lion.  I'm going with Black Metal, here.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 20, 2009, 09:38:58 PM
Half of these posts disguise their personal likes and dislikes as "better" and "worse", which is down-right childish. The only thing that is missing is the explanation that one thing is better than another "because it rocks".

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 21, 2009, 12:41:14 AM
Something I have noticed is that the best black metal bands seem to release more great albums than the best death metal bands.  most of the second wave Norwegian bands have at least three quality albums, whereas I cannot think of many death metal bands at all who have released three albums of a very high standard, only Gorguts comes to mind.  Perhaps this is because of the inherently more sustainable outlook of black metal allows the artist to continue creating it for longer, but the anti-humanist weight of death metal philosophy is simply too much for any man to bear over an extended period.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 21, 2009, 03:07:05 AM
Sorry, but there have been just as many, if not more, death metal bands who have released 3 or more good albums as there are black metal bands.  Some examples:
Immolation
The Chasm
Morbid Angel
Deicide
Asphyx
Bolt Thrower
Suffocation
Incantation, if "Forsaken Mourning..." is considered as a full-length (which it practically is)
arguably Therion
arguably Pestilence
Deeds of Flesh
Master
Sinister
Vader
arguably Sepultura (three good albums, but two are more speed metal than death metal)
Mortem
Monstrosity
Celtic Frost (again, Monotheist admittedly isn't a death metal album, but then, if you include the Hellhammer stuff, they easily hit 3)
...
and I'm sure there are more.

What black metal bands have done this?  Averse Sefira, Sacramentum, Burzum, Immortal, Darkthrone, Graveland, Ildjarn, Beherit, Bathory, Krieg, and Katharsis are the only ones that spring to mind.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 21, 2009, 03:15:26 AM
What black metal bands have done this?  Averse Sefira, Sacramentum, Burzum, Immortal, Darkthrone, Graveland, Ildjarn, Beherit, Bathory, Krieg, and Katharsis are the only ones that spring to mind.

Summoning... But I think it's much easier to be consistently good with death metal, which is much more stylistically based than black metal, which is more conceptual.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 21, 2009, 03:53:23 AM
Arguably Gorgoroth, and Profanatica is about to release another good album (their first 15 years of existence must count for something).

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 21, 2009, 03:24:15 PM
Sorry, but there have been just as many, if not more, death metal bands who have released 3 or more good albums as there are black metal bands. 

What black metal bands have done this?  Averse Sefira, Sacramentum, Burzum, Immortal, Darkthrone, Graveland, Ildjarn, Beherit, Bathory, Krieg, and Katharsis are the only ones that spring to mind.

Katharsis?  In any event, I agree with you.  I think there are probably more good death metal albums from top to bottom, than black metal albums.  However (and I know you didn't propose this, Cynical), I don't actually think this is a good way to decide which genre is "superior."  I would say compare the heights of both (top 3 albums or something).  If anything, I would say that the fact that high quality black metal is rarer indicates that it IS superior.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 21, 2009, 06:20:26 PM
If anything, I would say that the fact that high quality black metal is rarer indicates that it IS superior.

There's truth to this.

Unfortunately, there's two ways to measure this:

(a) Concept/style
(b) Manifestations

We've been doing the latter.

As a style, black metal offers some advantages: freed from the drum-leading tendencies of death metal, hence more through-composed open-phrase motif-driven (Summoning, Graveland, Burzum, Immortal, Darkthrone) composition, plus an aesthetic that is more clearly in line with Romantic ideals and less caught up in the modern, technological and individualistic.

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 22, 2009, 01:25:28 AM
I think this is a poor argument its like trying to decide between which of your children you like more. If both are talented and intelligent albeit have their dumb/childish moments (that would be the crap bands).

In the end its not the genres that fail by having bands that should never have released more than a handful of demos and a couple albums, it is the encouragement they receive from the wrong influences be it their fan base, their label, their family members, fellow band members. Every good band needs someone as an anchor to hold them back from going to much in some direction, or to write their music and tell them what to play.

I think it comes down to the fact a lot of good bands at one point stop thinking about what they can do to make their art sound better and just begin regurgitating the abortions of songs from their first handful of albums whether they be black metal or death metal.


Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 22, 2009, 03:04:15 PM
Well I think it's more fun to actually attempt to decide which is superior.  The "they are equal" argument or "there's no way to figure it out" argument are wishy-washy and boring.  Be daring!

This is why black metal is superior:

As a style, black metal offers some advantages: freed from the drum-leading tendencies of death metal, hence more through-composed open-phrase motif-driven (Summoning, Graveland, Burzum, Immortal, Darkthrone) composition, plus an aesthetic that is more clearly in line with Romantic ideals and less caught up in the modern, technological and individualistic.

ROMANTIC IDEALS, LESS CAUGHT UP IN THE MODERN, TECHNOLOGICAL, INDIVIDUALISTIC

Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
September 23, 2009, 12:57:22 AM
not all death metal bands bang their heads on this modern bullshit. Atleast the band i am in right now we don't really give 2 flying fucks about the clean produced garbage that coming out with bassdrum typerwriters. We just write music that embodies the original ideals behind death metal and invokes the feeling of impending doom that all good death metal should give you, not this technical wave your wizards wand and arpeggio shit that the kids these days think is so fucking BR()()DUL. To say thats a bad part of death metal is to say the fucking symphonic black metal shit and all that late 90's wanna be black metal holds back the whole genre.

O and since we are talking about it death metal can portray whatever you want it to just like black metal can, its just a musical texture that gives the listener a generic idea of what the fuck the band is going to sound, you can incorporate the same ideals into a death metal record as a black metal record.