Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

The proliferation of so called "green" topics and ideals?

Dunno if you have so many in America, but over here one sees plenty of people who have next to none environmental concerns jumping on the "green" wagon, mostly neo-liberal capitalists, who are trying to get a a foot in the door in order to have a political career in the future, fucking sad.

Every Finn, do not vote for the green party :E it's a waste of time.

I live in the US and I don't watch TV at home but every time I see one I see some kind of advertisement for any number of products claiming to be "making a change" and becoming more environmentally friendly. Same with other kinds of advertisements too. It's absurd because while they claim to be "changing" or putting some of their profits towards environmental causes they're still mass producing the same crap that's without a doubt seriously harming the environment. I don't follow politics at all but I have noticed this strange trend...

Aina on oksan ottajia, kun on kuusen kantajia......

It's also funny, that they now say, that it is for the sake of the third world countries -- and they invent the term climate fugitives -- that we should build tons of electro automobiles in order to diminish carbon dioxide emmision.

Like it happened in Australia and in the Middle East where they made a desert out of fertile land, it might happen again to other greedy and irresponsible peoples. But why is it bad? At some point a glacier, desert or thundra will be restitutet by the Earth again, and the people responsible for it will have died off in the process.

Aina on oksan ottajia, kun on kuusen kantajia......

Paskaahan se on ollut jo pitkän aikaa, miltei alusta asti. Ylipäätänsä politiikka on olemassa omassa mikrokosmoksessaan, joka on täysin eristetty todellisuudesta. Susi-Pulliaisen muistelmat voisivat olla hyvää lukemista vihreän liikkeen vesittämisestä. Jokatapauksessa, politiikka on turhaa paskaa ja pitäisi suomia itseäni siitä, että jaksoin muka ottaa sen vakavasti Anno Satana 2009, spede olen minä :D



Dunno if you have so many in America, but over here one sees plenty of people who have next to none environmental concerns jumping on the "green" wagon, mostly neo-liberal capitalists, who are trying to get a a foot in the door in order to have a political career in the future, fucking sad.

Yes, we have the same thing. We would love to sell you green products to replace your old products which can go into the landfill.

Even more, we'd like to deny that overpopulation and growth are the root of our problems. No, the problem is that we're not using green light bulbs.

Honest.

The solution is to get beyond ecologicians like Pentti Linkola, Garrett Hardin, Jacques Cousteau, etc. I find it helpful to deny global warming because it's a surrogate for people who are avoiding the actual issue.


This guy is awesome:

Quote
A road sweeper is due to collect an honorary degree from Cambridge University.

Allan Brigham has been sweeping the streets for 30 years. He is also a tour guide and historian.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8102353.stm

The problem of modernity is that people want us to use external control systems, instead of focusing on refinement of the human form (genetics) and self-discipline (culture, inner calm).

In fact, it seems to me that is what defines modernity.

There is going to be no green revolution until we face this fact.

Making all people "equal" and letting them pursue whatever their desires seem to be is a giant FAIL.

Equally FAIL is trying to ride herd on these people with a powerful bureaucracy.

I suggest instead:

  • Culture predominates over commerce
  • Positive breeding encouraged
  • Consumerism, "invisible hands" and bureaucracy seen as inefficient
  • We encourage a meditative stillness coupled with Romanticist, Faustian passion

Democracy provides an excellent example of why modern society fails:

Quote
Democracy is responsible for ecocide.

Tell people to fulfill their personal desires, and they will... and 99% of them will be destructive.

Democracy encourages egomania by encouraging people to vote according to what brings them personal gain, ignoring the question of the best plan for all (usually beyond their comprehension).

I grew when I stopped trying to project my human notions, and started assuming nature was a tested system and therefore doing right, and thus started trying to understand why nature's logic made sense

I've thought about this a great deal lately, dunno why.

It's a double-edged sword imo

All western people exist in a consumerist society, we can't see it going away anytime soon, utopian ideals are pipe dreams.

Of course, the root of the problem is people rooted in the money=stuff=happiness frame of mind, bur how to change it, on a fundamental level?

Bloody hard.


Of course, the root of the problem is people rooted in the money=stuff=happiness frame of mind, bur how to change it, on a fundamental level?

Discontent is already changing it among the few who do important things. The lumpenproles and clueless oblivion cases don't care what kind of mess they live in; they're oblivious. But if you get consensus among the smart, educated, independent, etc. you will be amazed how quickly things change.

Of course, the root of the problem is people rooted in the money=stuff=happiness frame of mind, bur how to change it, on a fundamental level?

I think there's an extra step there - the one that declares happiness is the most important value(more specifically, ego-happiness).

Greenism is more than a wagon to jump on for politicians, it's a surrogate for every person needing to feed his ego mania.
Many times I find Greenpeace activists outside the trainstation. "Just pay a yearly fee, get our cool magazine, and help save the world", or "Help us lobby for more useless laws and beurocracy". This is not helpful in any way, but when you go and talk to them and try to make them face the real problems as they are, they get caught up in moral reasoning and over-socialization, and even if they agree the facts are correct, they are evil, and therefore another course of action must be found, despite the fact that they know there is non.
Another trend here in Israel is all about helping people feel morally supirior by "saving the country". "Israel is drying, use less water", "We don't have free access to power, turn the lights off". Closing the tap for acummulative 5 minutes a day is not going to help the county or save it from drying, it might just make it slower, but the people feel as if they're making a difference, and that's what counts, right?
The solution should be rather complex but it can be achieved by helping people free themselves from false moral premises and see things for the way they are, this is why I bothered to speak with the greenpeace activists in the first place, even told them about ANUS and CORRUPT and Petti Linkola. If such ideas infiltrate existing organizations, it might be a start.
And I think a little George Carling would be good to beat them into common sense.

Of course, the root of the problem is people rooted in the money=stuff=happiness frame of mind, bur how to change it, on a fundamental level?

Discontent is already changing it among the few who do important things. The lumpenproles and clueless oblivion cases don't care what kind of mess they live in; they're oblivious. But if you get consensus among the smart, educated, independent, etc. you will be amazed how quickly things change.

Yes but also, trends, like you stated: "green light bulbs" are made by big ad agencies and companies, what would we need to do in order to make real ecological ideals closer to the clueless oblivion cases? We have to infiltrate said agencies methinks. I'm not in the position to do this but still, it might be worthwhile, perhaps the best course of action.

Fuck the bozos :E